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Here's a two parter for you guys.
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blackglasspirate
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Here's a two parter for you guys. Reply with quote

Hi, everyone, I'm the newbie here Smile

I have two questions about my 87 Westy..
I already posted this on another site but haven't gotten any responses yet.

Ok, first...
I took out the instrument panel a few times to fix the odometer and now that I have it all back in and working, the horn doesn't work. I don't know if that's related somehow? But if anyone has any advice, it would be great. It seems like it would be something simple, but who knows.

Second...
When I turn right I hear this knocking noise near the back right. It doesn't do it all the time, but most of the time. I thought it may just be a joint somewhere. I took it to Goodyear(just because it was easiest and I figured it was something simple) and they couldn't find anything wrong... Any ideas?

Thanks!
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to the clicking, there's another owner with what sounds like the same deal. I have long had the mysterious back-right clicking in mine, which I mentioned on that thread. It's never gotten worse or better, and I've had everything back there apart or replaced without change.

As to the horn, have you checked fuse #16? I don't see anything that circuit has in common with the inst.panel, unless you had the fuse panel down, too.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horn circuit provides ground to the horn. There is a brown wire that goes down the steering column to the funky rubber U joint like thing near the pedals. There is a spade connector and the wire there. It is a common spot for the wire to come off.
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blackglasspirate
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses.

I checked the fuse and it didn't look like it was blown and I also checked the brown wire with the spade connector and it was still connected.
Any other suggestions?

Like I said, it was working the other day. The only time I noticed it not working was after I took the instrument cluster out, but that's probably just coincidence.

As for the clicking noise, who knows? I guess I'll just have to deal with it. It's not too bad so I'll just see how that goes.

Anyway, if you have any more input, I'd really appreciatte it.
Thanksss.
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jeremysmithatshawdotca
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the horn, crawl under the front and check the connections to the horn itself, if they're good, the pull the centre cover off the steering wheel and see what the connections are like in there.

Have you examined the cv joints in the back? Couldn't do any harm to give them a service. It's a bit of a messy job, but not particularly hard if you pay attention to how it goes together as you take it apart for cleaning.

Jeremy
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blackglasspirate
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I crawled under the front and looked at the horn. The horn itself looked kind of old and had some rust patches on it(maybe that's the problem?). I couldn't really tell about the connections. I mean, they were connected, but I couldn't get them unconnected to see if they were dirty (the have that rubber covering).

I took the cover of the steering wheel off and the connections looked fine under there. I then took the wheel off and looked at the horn ring. The contact for the horn ring was pretty dirty so I cleaned it off, but still no luck.
Anything else I can test?

I'm sorry if I seem like a retard. This is the first Vanagon I've owned and I just bought it a week ago. Thanks for all the responses!
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jeremysmithatshawdotca
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the steering wheel cover off, pull the wire off of the cover and touch it directly to the other part to see if that works. If that doesn't work, I'd get a circuit tester and use it to figure out which wire is the problem.

Jeremy
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flyingCoyote
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blackglasspirate wrote:
I crawled under the front and looked at the horn

I keep a 20' length of paired red/black wire handy at all times for testing. Hook up one end to a known good power source, and use the other ends to test the horn. If it honks, you've got a wiring problem, if not, it's the horn itself. The one on my '85 was dead, and the car doesn't seem to have seen a lot of winters/salt/etc, so I guess they're not that durable. Certainly they're mounted in a vulnerable location.
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blackglasspirate
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, here's what I've tried so far.

I hooked up an external power source to the horn and it worked fine, so there's a problem elsewhere.

I used a voltmeter on the line and got nothing.
I took the inst panel off again just to see if maybe I had knocked something out below it. I looked and saw that on the fuse panel, above the fuses, one of those boxes that plugs in had come loose. Sorry for not knowing the terminology, but they are those little boxes that plug in right above the fuses.
Anyway, plugged that back in, and it worked...for a little.
I started putting things back together and tested it again...nothing.
Made sure the box was still in; it was. So I started testing with the voltmeter and at one point had up to almost 11 volts, but most of the time there was nothing near 12.
I kept testing and had the keys in the ignition with the instruments turned on (for the few moments before when I got the horn to work, the instruments had to be on...is that normal for that? Just wondering)...anyway, as I'm testing I'm hearing the little "Door ajar" tune playing and it starts fading.
I was like "Oh crap!" so I turned it off, then tried to start the car and the battery was drained.

Here's a little background on the battery...I never had a problem with it(I haven't owned it long, but still) but when I brought it to Goodyear they said it died twice on them and then it died again as I was trying to get it started to take home. I've started it a few times since and it worked fine, but now it's out again.
Do you think the horn problem has something to do with the battery not putting out? And if so....what can be done about the battery? Seems like it's not keeping its charge(yes, the camper equipment is off).

I really appreciatte your help, I'm still learning all of this stuff as I go along. I'm not a mechanic in the least bit, but I'm learning.
Thanks!
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electric horns won't sound if the voltage is too low, so you may not have anything wrong with the horn circuit after all. But just in case, since you said fiddling around with the fuse panel made it work once, make sure all the colored multi-wire connectors are pushed firmly into the back of the panel. The horn circuit, and most others, goes thru those connections. You may have squeezed on one as you pressed on that relay (that's what the little black boxes are called).

But main thing is to get the battery back up to charge. Test the horn then, it may work, but you need to check your charging system output so you know whether it's just a bad battery or not. That's your big problem now.
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blackglasspirate
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have found the solution.

Turned out not to be the horn at all. The horn wasn't working because it wasn't getting enough power due to the battery dying and not being able to hold a charge. The battery did seem kind of old so I replaced it and BAM, problem solved.

Thanks for all the help, now I know what to do if my horn stops working and the battery is still good Smile
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CurtisS
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Jeremy is right suggesting the CV joints. I had a similar problem on our 90 Westy and the CV joints were the culprit. I just ordered and replaced the half shafts on both sides.
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blackglasspirate
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, I was thinking that too. But, the guys at goodyear said they checked them and everything looked fine. I guess it wouldn't hurt to replace them. I'll keep riding for a while and see if it gets worse.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you tested your charging system, or you may just end up with another bad battery. Batteries just fail sometimes, it's not at all uncommon, but to be sure, put a voltmeter on your battery, check base voltage (should be 12.4-12.8v), and start the car. Voltage should climb slowly but steadily to a maximum of 13.6-14v within 20-30 minutes. Either idlng or driving around, it shouldn't make any difference (the battery takes that long to absorb the current).

That's the quicky test, it doesn't confirm maximum amperage capability, but it tells you the alternator and regulator are working together.
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blackglasspirate
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like it's working fine.
The voltage before I drove it around was at 12.4 and then I drove it for around 30 minutes and it was to 13.6. So looks like all is good!
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good deal. Funny way to find out about a bad battery.
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jeremysmithatshawdotca
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goes to show, you can never be quite certain where the garden path will eventually lead!
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