Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
AVP motor report & questions (pictures)
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
airkooledchris
Samba Member


Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2640
Location: Where the pacific ocean meets the redwood forest
airkooledchris is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: AVP motor report & questions (pictures) Reply with quote

http://www.eucasafari.vendioweb.com/AVP/


The local shop halted during the install of my new rebuilt AVP 2.0 motor when they saw something funny on the heads.

I don't know how quite to explain, so please take a look at the photo's.

basically part of the welded head seems to be chipping away, and they aren't sure if this is a failure or if the little bits should be bent and broken off prior to install, so they dont come out down the road and end up inside the motor.

I took a few other shots as well, showing things that cause me a bit of concern.

any advise, suggestions or other misc tomfoolery is of course welcomed.

chris

81 aircooled



actually, since you can post images here in the forum, i may as well link to them here as well:



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheBeast
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2005
Posts: 145
Location: W Michigan
TheBeast is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should read Richards info here about other suspects as well:

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Longblock.html

The flash is most likely from installing the new guides, but you'd think they would check their own work.

Rolling Eyes
_________________
1963 Anthracite Beetle 1776 w/ 34pict
1979 Bus Westfalia- Sage green w/ fancy stripes
1978 Bus - Sunroof model
1970 Beetle Convertible
1982 Rabbit Pick-up
1984 Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bottomend
Grease


Joined: September 20, 2003
Posts: 1500
Location: Smell Aye! via Nude Hamster!
Bottomend is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It shouldn't be a problem to simply clean away the offense but, I'd take heed of what Jake has been saying about the quality of these heads before continuing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Classifieds Feedback
Randy in Maine
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34886
Location: The Beach
Randy in Maine is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would call the place you bought it from and communicate your issue. I would have the guy from the shop with me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
airkooledchris
Samba Member


Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2640
Location: Where the pacific ocean meets the redwood forest
airkooledchris is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
I would call the place you bought it from and communicate your issue. I would have the guy from the shop with me.


already in the works.

the guys at AVP have been really friendly and helpful through the process, and if this all works out ok, as it has for many many others, I will again say that im happy to have found it as an option...


I called them up, they will have their machinist on the phone tomorrow morning with the mechanic doing the work for me.

I have also emailed them these photo's from the local shop over to them, so they are both on the same page.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
zabo
Samba Member


Joined: May 24, 2005
Posts: 1183
Location: ATL
zabo is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive had a few problems with some rebuilt avp heads I got through bus depot.
I'm not impressed with thier rebuilds. The number 1 intake stud pulled out, it had been helocoiled and failed after less than a mile. and the outer threads had been sandblasted off.
_________________
1960 6 volt sedan- 1978 adventurewagen
–wanted bill spreen atlanta dealer tag frame
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
visibleink
Samba Member


Joined: May 03, 2002
Posts: 1662
Location: Austin, Texas
visibleink is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would hate to worry about chunks breaking off. Why not just have AVP switch out that head?
_________________
Been on the samba so long I remember petting that dog to see VWs, WYHI, and green bug girl.

<-- Helga, she slammed her dub in '53 and adjusted valves with her teeth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
germansupplyscott
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 6299
Location: toronto
germansupplyscott is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is no surpise that these things happen with economy rebuilds. you simply can't rebuild a type 4 engine and charge 1400.00 retail and expect anything different. anyone can do the math and see that the numbers don't add up. you cannot even buy the parts for a for a good rebuild for 1400.00 wholesale, let alone pay for any machine work and assembly. you have to cut corners to make it work. use chinese P&C, not rebuild the connecting rods, clean parts & paint them but not actually rebuild them, save assembly time by not checking deck height or valve geometry, and the real killer, find a small issue like a broken fin or valve guide boss but just keep going instead of back-tracking to fix it.

as for this engine itself - the broken fin will not be a problem, the engine can take it. the timesert in the plug hole is fine, at least they used a timesert and not a helcoil. the badly installed valve guide is just an indication of the the overall standard of workmanship in the shop that did the rebuild.

it isn't getting any easier or cheaper to get good parts for your old bus.
_________________
SL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EdW
Samba Member


Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 2385
Location: Unemployment Office
EdW is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just hope that parts of the case aren't breaking apart inside the engine. This piece here:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


was found broken off inside my crankcase, seen here:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The piece that busted off was an obvious repair that was done pretty shoddily and did not last. Caused me to have to do a complete rebuild on my AVP longblock which was also found to be quite worn (with only 14,000 miles on the clock).

However, I'm extremely pleased with the new rebuild, my bus now has power. Wink
_________________
20‰

Quote:
I would call him a dick, but a dick has a head on it


Last edited by bljones on Today 4:20am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
whip618
Samba Member


Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 754
Location: Albuquerque
whip618 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EdW, that is the perfect " Type IV syndrome" example of what happens when someone over torques the oil strainer plate. These photos should be made a sticky so newbies to type IV's will understand the importance of the proper use of a torque wrench.

Phil
_________________
Life is simple....either you're qualified or you're not.
USSVI.......Pride Runs Deep
USSVI Life member and Holland Club member

Samba Member No. 3307
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EdW
Samba Member


Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 2385
Location: Unemployment Office
EdW is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whip618 wrote:
EdW, that is the perfect " Type IV syndrome" example of what happens when someone over torques the oil strainer plate. These photos should be made a sticky so newbies to type IV's will understand the importance of the proper use of a torque wrench.

Phil


Yes, it is a good photographic example of why torquing the sump plate properly is so important. Unfortunately for me, someone else made the mistake and I ended up with the bad case. Mad
_________________
20‰

Quote:
I would call him a dick, but a dick has a head on it


Last edited by bljones on Today 4:20am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wayradmike
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2006
Posts: 208
Location: little rock, ar
wayradmike is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's a pretty example of what happens when you don't use oversized valve guides in an apparently cheap-arsed head rebuild. dern yer hide PO.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


note the piece of guide imbedded into the head.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
74 bay

"When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life... " (Spamalot/Life of Brian)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bleyseng
Samba Member


Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4642
Location: Seattle
Bleyseng is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool domed pistons...90mm? or the rare 93's?
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bajatacoma
Samba Member


Joined: August 05, 2003
Posts: 675
Location: the Great State of Denial
Bajatacoma is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What really sucks about it is that you can build a performance Chevy 350 with a lot higher quality parts for less than a Type IV. It just doesn't make sense sometimes... Confused
_________________
'78 Westy

Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?
Hunter S Thompson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tristessa
Samba Member


Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3958
Location: Portland, OR
tristessa is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bajatacoma wrote:
What really sucks about it is that you can build a performance Chevy 350 with a lot higher quality parts for less than a Type IV. It just doesn't make sense sometimes... Confused

Sure it does, it's just a matter of common vs. less common.

Small-block Chevys are dime-a-dozen like the Type I is. Common engine, parts are cheap. Once you get away from the common engines, the price of parts climbs (and sometimes goes through the roof), whether that less-common engine is VW (Type IV, 25hp, 36hp) or American V8 (Ford, Mopar, AMC, Pontiac).

The less-common engine may be better than the common one (see Type IV, AMC, Pontiac), but since there's less demand for parts, fewer parts are made and the prices are higher because of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bleyseng
Samba Member


Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4642
Location: Seattle
Bleyseng is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try buying Porsche parts Sad

Porsche Classic parts does supply parts for the older models but the prices, ouch. Atleast the quality is OEM instead the Chinese crap that is out there.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
airkooledchris
Samba Member


Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2640
Location: Where the pacific ocean meets the redwood forest
airkooledchris is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that note, what would be the least expensive motor to build, and can you adapt it to fit a baywindow bus compartment?

I mean, if you can get a brand spankin new american V6 for around $2k, and the parts are as cheap as it sounds like they are, maybe that would be a good direction to head...

for those of us looking for some affordable powerplans.

the subaru motors can't be cheap, and those Ford guys on the east coast dont come cheap either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bajatacoma
Samba Member


Joined: August 05, 2003
Posts: 675
Location: the Great State of Denial
Bajatacoma is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slap a Toyota engine in it (i.e Roadcow http://www.blabberon.com/picts.html]) and drive it till it dies. Laughing I'm kidding of course.
_________________
'78 Westy

Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?
Hunter S Thompson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkTime
Samba Member


Joined: August 05, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Austin, Texas
MarkTime is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bajatacoma wrote:
Slap a Toyota engine in it (i.e Roadcow http://www.blabberon.com/picts.html]) and drive it till it dies. Laughing I'm kidding of course.


LOL - I'm seriously thinking about a Kennedy Engineering adapter plate and a Subaru engine when we move to Colorado. My AVP rebuit engine had a weak oil pump and I'm still waiting on my core refund.
_________________
http://www.AdBirds.com
---
News: Brazil Ends Air Cooled Kombi Production
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/21/ap/business/mainD8EKS1901.shtml
---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
MarkTime
Samba Member


Joined: August 05, 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Austin, Texas
MarkTime is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkTime wrote:
Bajatacoma wrote:
Slap a Toyota engine in it (i.e Roadcow http://www.blabberon.com/picts.html]) and drive it till it dies. Laughing I'm kidding of course.


LOL - I'm seriously thinking about a Kennedy Engineering adapter plate and a Subaru engine when we move to Colorado. My AVP rebuit engine had a weak oil pump and I'm still waiting on my core refund.


Also: On first startup of my rebuilt AVP engine I heard a loud tapping. I took it to the shop. Motormania found the #2 lifter so loose it was'nt even working. If I had it to do all over again, I would have gone the route of adapting to a SUBARU. KLeeping stock is almost impossible these days as some parts are no longer available.
_________________
http://www.AdBirds.com
---
News: Brazil Ends Air Cooled Kombi Production
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/21/ap/business/mainD8EKS1901.shtml
---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB