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AVP motor report & questions (pictures)
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YellowSplittie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkTime wrote:
MarkTime wrote:
Bajatacoma wrote:
Slap a Toyota engine in it (i.e Roadcow http://www.blabberon.com/picts.html]) and drive it till it dies. Laughing I'm kidding of course.


LOL - I'm seriously thinking about a Kennedy Engineering adapter plate and a Subaru engine when we move to Colorado. My AVP rebuit engine had a weak oil pump and I'm still waiting on my core refund.


Also: On first startup of my rebuilt AVP engine I heard a loud tapping. I took it to the shop. Motormania found the #2 lifter so loose it was'nt even working. If I had it to do all over again, I would have gone the route of adapting to a SUBARU. KLeeping stock is almost impossible these days as some parts are no longer available.


Did you give those lifters time to pump up? My newly installed AVP engine made the same noise, ran poorly, but after a few minutes the lifters pumped up and the engine ran fine and quieted down. The lifter will feel loose if it has collapsed, especially on a new engine that hasn't been run. The instructions they send even tell you how to adjust the lifters after break-in has completed. I've had my AVP since 1999 and I've been very happy with it.

I will add that I probably wouldn't purchase an AVP rebuild again. At the time, it was an attractive price, but from what I've learned since then (head problems outlined by Richard Atwell, cost of wholesale parts vs the cost of the assembled engine, the fact that the distributor drive is indexed wrong on EVERY 2.0L - including mine), I probably would go with a more reputable builder - albeit at a higher cost.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would unfortunatley have to agree with the others on NOT going the AVP route again....


They would return phone calls promptly prior to the purchase, but since then ive had to wait upwards of a week for a return call about possible issues id like to discuss.

Last Wed I busted a valve spring, and they said that the parts and some of the labor would be covered, but they would need to get back in touch with me later.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I called last Saturday asking for an update.

Didnt hear back.

I called this past Wed asking for an update.

Didn't hear back.

I called yesterday asking for an update.

Didn't hear back.


Now I dont think they are just out to steal your money and run, or provide falty products on purpose just as a scam, but I AM starting to think that its just a terribly run business.

They already state that they only return calls between 3-6 PST, but currently they aren't returning any calls - OR they just aren't returning any calls that don't specifically relate to NEW sales.

If I had to do it all over again, I would (im really sad to say) never use AVP.

They just leave a really bad taste in your mouth and now im scared that between the cost of shipping, removal and installation of this motor, that I should have saved up the extra $1500 or so to get a better product and almost more importantly - better service.

Im not sure why BUSDEPOT suggests their products, but I wish they didn't.
Between their vote of support and the (seemingly) positive reports ive seen in the archives about their motors, I went into it with only a little hesitation.

I only have 1200 miles on it now, but im already planning an eventual upgrade 'just in case' - which is sad.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, and of course the issue that started this thread in the first place - somewhat sloppy work......


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MarkTime
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
oh, and of course the issue that started this thread in the first place - somewhat sloppy work......


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That looks like it is "somewhat" ready to clog something up.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we broke those little bits off prior to installing the motor, to keep them from "somewhat" "cloggging" anything up.

Very Happy
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Ed Ruth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am curious about the broken valve spring. I certainly hope this isn't common. In the early days of auto manufacturing valve springs broke all the time. I have been told that a spring was sandblasted to remove some paint and then put on a test rack. It outlasted all the others and a technique was developed to releave the stress on springs. I think it is called pin fireing or similar.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFAIK they always stress test them prior to re-using, as the only sure fire way to know if they wouldn't break is to xray them for stress cracks.

Apparently its pretty rare for these things to break, but with it happening within the first 1000 miles I felt like they really should cover some of the labor for this issue.....
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REALLY OLD THREAD, but there wasn't a point in starting a new one.

I originally put the AVP rebuild into my van in July of 2006, and since then ive put 14,736 miles on it.

every so often I write down my MPG numbers, and since birth this is what im getting:

2006:
13
11.2
13.5
15.4
15.1
15
12.34
12.62
13
14.8
15.2
14.24

2007:
12.3
12.1
12.7
13.2
12.53
13.24
11.63
12.6

2008:
12.7
14.25
12.2

2009:
11.3

so what you ask?

well, ive played around with my AFM and trying to get this and that tuned juuuuust so, but it really doesn't make any difference.
before you go chasing ghosts trying to get more MPG out of your vehicle, take into account the motor itself and weather or not its even capable of your goals. not that you shouldn't get it tuned as well as possible, to keep the head temps down and the power where you want it, but poor MPG may not mean it's not setup properly, it could just be a $hitty rebuild as a starting point.
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... i would say that, if it's an option, (edited) not listen to any forum pessimism..


Last edited by airkooledchris on Mon May 04, 2009 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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1977_L63H_P27
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
... but poor MPG may not mean it's not setup properly, it could just be a $hitty rebuild as a starting point.


I'm not convinced that you can tell a bad rebuild by your mileage numbers. I would be more inclined to believe that your induction system wasn't doing it's job. Peace!
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1977_L63H_P27 wrote:
airkooledchris wrote:
... but poor MPG may not mean it's not setup properly, it could just be a $hitty rebuild as a starting point.


I'm not convinced that you can tell a bad rebuild by your mileage numbers. I would be more inclined to believe that your induction system wasn't doing it's job. Peace!


and what would give you that inclination based on what you know about this setup?

or is that just a random toss at the dartboard of possibilities?

also my numbers above were a little off, I have nearly twice that number of miles (since corrected in the above post). mixture checked and rechecked and re-dialed in with an LM-1. Vacuum holding 14lbs at idle, and this is the same induction system that was on the vehicle before I put this motor in it, when I was seeing about 2-3 mpg better on average with the previous 160k mile motor running this apparently flawed induction system.

sorry if it sounds defensive, but it's that attitude that im hoping people will try and keep in check when dealing with this kind of BS. you can go chasing your tail for tens of thousands of miles trying to determine what accessory to the motor is causing an issue, but it would be downright stupid to just totally rule out the motor itself as a possible cause.
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... i would say that, if it's an option, (edited) not listen to any forum pessimism..
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1977_L63H_P27
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's one more random toss at the ol' dart board. Have you had the heads off of the AVP rebuild? Maybe the valves are the wrong size. It could be just that simple. Peace!
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Yellow Van
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
REALLY OLD THREAD, but there wasn't a point in starting a new one.

I originally put the AVP rebuild into my van in July of 2006, and since then ive put 14,736 miles on it.

every so often I write down my MPG numbers, and since birth this is what im getting:


2007:
12.3
12.1
12.7
13.2
12.53
13.24
11.63
12.6

2008:
12.7
14.25
12.2

2009:
11.3


Wow that is bad! My aircooled van is gutless but I went from 13 to 18 MPG with work on the FI system. My air/fuel screw is set kind of randomly but the 02 sensor takes over when the engine warms up and forces it to run lean as per California spec. I know you set yours up with the A/F meter, but did you make sure you had no extra air getting in the exhaust that could give you a false lean reading? There may be something wrong here that is just not obvious.
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there was a small exhaust leak where the muffler connects to the extractor thing, which is just about where the bung is welded in place, but ive checked since fixing that and im running around 15:1 at part throttle around town and 13:1 or so at WOT, so I feel pretty good about keeping my mixture where it is for now.

Ive decided also to just stop f'ing with it for now until Itinerant-air-cooled Colin makes his way here to set me right. (July 9th, can't wait, I think?)

ok, I lied, I still mess with it, but with the hammer by my side and the finer tuning instruments instead. before I was just taking massive swings at the whole thing hoping to just luck into a decent mixture and ive been happiest with the recent numbers.
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be curious to see what Collin finds out. I have an AVP on mine and I am getting 15 city 20-22 hwy (depends on how much climbing has to be done). I still need to replace my fuel pressure regulator so I am hoping that will get me maybe 1 or 2 mpgs. Did you do a compression test?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that a leakdown test might be more valuable to perform.
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a question that was never answered:
Are you still using domed pistons...and..are they 90mm's or 93's?

Reason I ask, is because if those are 90mm's...for a 1.7.....you are using what appears to be 1.8 heads with them. The combustion chamber shape is not correct for the 1.7....especially with domes.

What did your compression finally work out to be?

If this is a bus...and isusing domes and has compression anywhere near what the highcompression domed 1.7's had (8.2:1)....that would not be great in a bus. The velocity would be high....and the whole mess not right for your gearing. Adjusted best running with teh stock injection will probbaly either end up being a gas eater (with head temps that are sane)....or a head burner with decent gas milage ( with head temps that are not sane). Ray
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YellowSplittie wrote:

I will add that I probably wouldn't purchase an AVP rebuild again. At the time, it was an attractive price, but from what I've learned since then (head problems outlined by Richard Atwell, cost of wholesale parts vs the cost of the assembled engine, the fact that the distributor drive is indexed wrong on EVERY 2.0L - including mine), I probably would go with a more reputable builder - albeit at a higher cost.


I remember reading that on ratwells site, but never thought to check that on my own. (off to go reading.)



raygreenwood - you sure this is the thread with those questions going unanswered?
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airkooledchris
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:


Ive decided also to just stop f'ing with it for now until Itinerant-air-cooled Colin makes his way here to set me right. (July 9th, can't wait, I think?)


Well, Colin was here.

Colin confirmed what Jake Raby had previously diagnosed by ear, one of the main bearings is really loose and that is what that super annoying sound is.

As you can tell from when this thread began, I have been chasing this down since I had 1,000 miles on the motor in 2006.

I now have 16,000 miles on this engine. I have countless amounts of money that has gone into trying desperately to make this investment into the AVP motor worthwhile, and unfortunately I think it's end is already on the horizon, though ill milk it as long as I can.

Compression test results at the end of the day with Colin trying to get everything we could out of it:
#1 - 90
#2 - 85
#3 - 90
#4 - 120

I don't think it's totally normal for an AVP motor to do this THIS early, but it sure does make you think twice about getting one or suggest that anyone else put that bullet into their gun and play roulette like I did (and lost.)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude chris i'm ssoooo sorry man as soon as i saw this thread pop up i though" he's still f'ing with that thing..." to bad brother, hope you can at least get 50K out of it but i really really doubt it, if there is anything you need help with let me know man.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

airkooledchris wrote:
airkooledchris wrote:


Ive decided also to just stop f'ing with it for now until Itinerant-air-cooled Colin makes his way here to set me right. (July 9th, can't wait, I think?)


Well, Colin was here.

Colin confirmed what Jake Raby had previously diagnosed by ear, one of the main bearings is really loose and that is what that super annoying sound is.

As you can tell from when this thread began, I have been chasing this down since I had 1,000 miles on the motor in 2006.

I now have 16,000 miles on this engine. I have countless amounts of money that has gone into trying desperately to make this investment into the AVP motor worthwhile, and unfortunately I think it's end is already on the horizon, though ill milk it as long as I can.

Compression test results at the end of the day with Colin trying to get everything we could out of it:
#1 - 90
#2 - 85
#3 - 90
#4 - 120

I don't think it's totally normal for an AVP motor to do this THIS early, but it sure does make you think twice about getting one or suggest that anyone else put that bullet into their gun and play roulette like I did (and lost.)


Darn on the bearing. I liked it better when Colin was just talking about pistons and cylinders. BTW, nice to meet the famous Colin yesterday. Call me if you need any help/tools.
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