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Comparing stock Solex carbs to each other, and to the H30/31
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Comparing stock Solex carbs to each other, and to the H30/31 Reply with quote

Comparing different stock Solex carbs to each other, and to the Brosol H30/31

The following "report" is kind of long, I've been working on it off and on for some time now and I'm about sick of this project. (Excuse any typo's or repetitions I missed while editing it.) Hopefully it will be of some use to someone:

This started out as something small, and then "snowballed" on me. Everett had asked me last winter about how the vacuum advance pull on the 28PICT functioned. That got me started. I later posted a few comparison pics between a couple of different PICT carbs, to which I was going to add some more pictures. Then I got an old used H30/31 PICT and decided to take some more pictures and then did some actual running tests... etc.

I don't think the following is completely scientific or definitive, as I don't have the means to do any testing under load, or the knowledge and equipment to do extensive modifications, but during this last few weeks/months I've done some comparisons of a few different stock Solex carburetors, both original German ones, plus the Brosol H30/31 and the Bocar 30PICT-1(which is essentially identical to the 1967 30PICT-1).

One reason for this is because, people often ask, "What distributor is the H30/31 replacement carb supposed to go with?" And the answer I've usually given is, basically, none specifically. The H30 is basically a 30PICT-3 modified with the 31PICT-3 / 34PICT-3 style idle cutoff valve added to it, a slightly larger venturi, and several vacuum ports added for various applications, like Autostick and throttle positioner. And even the DVDA retard line. (but as you'll see, it turns to not be suitable for DVDA or SVDA) But it's not designed with any specific application in mind, just a general purpose replacement unit. More and more people are putting them onto the dual port manifold with a 30/34 adapter. Some have claimed that it goes good with an SVDA and I've even repeated that (mis)information at times, but I've also questioned it as well. I tried to find the post where i had made some pointed questions about this many months back but could not, maybe it got deleted or something. Anyway, I had questions, to which I've not really seen any definite answers. So I decided to attempt to answer some of them myself.

Part 1- Comparisons:

Update: 5/2/07. Added pics of some more carbs:

As mentioned, a while back, I posted some pictures as to how the internal "plumbing" of a 30PICT-1 (which used a vacuum-only distributor) compared to a 34PICT-3 (one that was originally matched with and SVDA) On the 30PICT-1, there is a medium sized port partially blocked by the throttle butterfly when closed, plus a second fitting higher up in the venturi that emerges from a brass pipe next to the main's discharge point. (This pipe was added on the 28PICT-1, the earlier 28PICT had a port up there, but it was just a hole in the side of the venturi. This leads me to believe that apparently a more appropriate vacuum signal is generated by having it be pulled from closer to center of the "depression" of vacuum.) The reason for this second port up there is maintain a smooth, steady and consistent amount of vacuum as RPMs are increased. Which is what is needed to feed a vacuum-only distributor.

Here are a couple of pics, first of a German 28PICT-1, and then the BOCAR 30PICT-1, they are quite similar. Then a picture of a 30PICT-2 from 1968 - with one small drilling down low and the fitting up high. Then a picture of a 30PICT-3, which has two small vacuum drillings down low above the throttle plate, and finally the H30/31 which has only one drilling down low, slightly larger than its 30PICT-3 cousin (and they both have a brass-pipe fitting higher in the venturi)
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And I'll add this one in, since I came across it. Here is a Japan-made clone
of the 30PICT-3. I believe these may have been sold by JC Whitney in the past.
The carb was labelled TOMCO, 30PICT-2-3. The drillings (and the entire carb)
most closely resemble the 30PICT-3 above.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now, moving to the DVDA and SVDA era - the 34PICT-3, is said to be designed to give vacuum to the distributor advance while accelerating and will "back off" while cruising, and the centrifugal part of the SVDA or DVDA then provides the only advance at that point. How these carburators are plumbed to provide this is by only have one or two small vacuum fittings just above the throttle butterfly. With NO vacuum fitting higher up in the carb venturi. As shown here for a 1972 49-state DVDA carb (base flange 325-2), a 1972-73 California-spec DVDA [/b]carb (base flange # 325-3), and an early 1973 DVDA carb (base flange # 377-1), note it only has one small hole:

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And for comparison, here is are two others:
a late 1973 SVDA carb (base flange # 410-1) and
a 1974 SVDA carb (base flange # 427-1) :

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is subtle differences like that, plus things like the size of the hole in the throttle butterfly, which make for running problems when you mix'n'match different carbs/distributors. I was unable to do any actual testing on that 377-1 34PICT-3 carb, it was one I had run on my baja like a dozen years ago, but since then it had suffered too much water damage. But the other one, is the one I've run fairly successfully,off and on for many years on my Baja and it's an "OK" carb, and still has fairly tight throttle shaft bushings so was good to go.

A few weeks ago I bought a used H30/31 mostly so I could inspect it. It was cheap, and in kind of rough shape but it turned out to be decent enough that I thought it might run after I cleaned it up. So I did that, took some pictures (also took some pictures of a brand new H30/31 to be sure it was still being produced the same way) and also dug out a 30PICT-3 for comparisons sake, which also looked like I could get to run.

First of all, when I got my used H30 in hand and taken apart, I noticed that vacuum plumbing for the advance circuit on both the H30 and the 30PICT-3 were very similar. Unlike the 34PICT-3 above, the H30 DOES have a vacuum fitting high up in the venturi, much like the 30PICT-3 does. The H30's pipe tapers at the end, whereas the 30PICT-3 does not, but the size of the actual orifice between the two appears to be about the same, for comparison I also have a similar shot of a 28PICT-1, whose pipe in that location appears to be slightly larger. Pictures:

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As mentioned previously, the 30PICT-3 has two small progressive drillings just above the throttle plate, similar to the two seen in the SVDA 34PICT-3 shown above. The H30/31 has just one slightly larger drilling there. (remember, both these carbs plus the 34PICT-3 are designed to idle with the throttle completely shut, so these holes are blocked off when the engine is idling, provided the throttle is adjusted properly)

The conclusions I drew from examining the two carbs and knowing how the various systems were supposed to work, were that the H30/31 was obviously a lot closer in design of its distributor advance vacuum circuit to the 30 series than the 34 series. If that was the case, then using an SVDA or DVDA distributor originally mated to a 34 series carb would be an obvious mismatch. I wanted to verify this, so I slapped them on my bugs and did some vacuum advance tests with a vacuum gauge.

I used both my cars for testing - my 62 which is a big-bore 40HP, with 1.1 ratio rockers and the good 1965 heads, otherwise stock internally, and stock exhaust. The other car is my Baja bug, which is a 1600DP, 1.25 ratio rockers and Baja extractor for exhaust.

First of all, I'm running a BOCAR 30PICT-1 on that big-bore 40HP, and it runs very well. I went and put my vacuum gauge on there using a T-fitting and checked to see how many RPMs it took to get to 40,60,80 and 100mm (and up) of Hg of vacuum. I found there was about 20mmHg of vacuum even at the ~850RPM idle speed I have it set at. Which makes sense because on the 30PICT-1 the vacuum port is not blocked off by the throttle butterfly. I found the vacuum pull increases steadily and smoothly as RPMs increased. And it kept going up, 80mgHg at 3000RPM, then 100mmHg at about 3600RPM - after which it leveled off around that 100mmHg level, and didn't back off from there til around 5000RPM.

Then I put on the H30/31 carb. Man what a PITA to dial in. I finally got it to idle but it wasn't very smooth. At idle, there was no vacuum pull for the advance, as expected, because the vacuum port on this and the other later carbs are blocked off by the throttle plate at idle. But as I revved it up the vacuum pulled around smoothy, and on average, I hit 100mmHg at around 3000RPM and it didn't want to go much past 100 as I revved it past that point.

Next, I took off the H30, and swapped it with the German 30PICT-3. Again, I had a hell of time getting it to want to idle. (I'm pretty sure this is the same 30PICT-3 I ran successfully for several months around 15 years ago on this same car) I found the 30PICT-3 took longer to reach the 80mmHg that specified full advance for its stock carb/dizzy setup, it was at 3000RPM. I wasn't able to show 100mmHg until around 3800RPM, vs. 3000RPM on the H30. Above which it seemed to level out at a little over 100mmHg.

Then I moved over to the Baja bug. A month or two previous to this, I had put the previously depicted 410-1 SVDA style 34PICT-3 and a matching original 034 SVDA back onto it, this was kind of another test - I've previously had very good luck with a properly rejetted BOCAR 30PICT-1 (and a 1967 "K" distributor) mounted on an adapter, on this engine, but I also wanted to see if performance or gas mileage might change if I put a matched SVDA carb/dizzy pair on there. I tried this for a while last winter with disappointing results. This time, I had been running the pair for a couple of weeks, and it was running OK. Not perfect, as it still had something of a flat spot that would not adjust out, but it was drivable, not perfect but OK. But since I was planning on changing back to my other carb/dizzy setup, this was as good as time as any to do so - and do some more vacuum/RPM testing

So the results on the SVDA 34PICT-3: the vacuum started climbing slowly as you increased RPMs. Slower per RPM than on the 30's I'd been testing on the other engine. Then a little over 3000RPM, vacuum would suddenly shoot up quickly well past 200mmHg, then 300mmHg, which is more than enough to operate the DVDA and SVDA distributors. I didn't reach and pass the 200mmHg mark (which is the spec for full advance on the 034 SVDA) until a hefty 3500RPM. (which is about right, if you've read aircooled.net's test notes for a SVDA). I didn't see any falloff in the vacuum pull until I got around 5000RPM. But that is an unloaded engine, and under acceleration then holding RPMs briefly, long enough to check the readings. I did notice that the vacuum would drop rapidly if you let off the gas even slightly, which I expected to see. But again this test isn't very scientific; I didn't have the means to test it under load.

Then I put back my Bocar 30PICT-1 and "K" dizzy pair on there, and tested the vacuum. Compared to the 30PICT-1 I have on my 40HP, it took a bit more RPM before it would reach the same mmHg pull. Which I think is to be expected due to the larger displacement, valves and intake manifold.

Then I felt I should test the H30/31 on that dual port. So I took off the 30PICT-1, swapped the adapter to the H30 and slapped it on there. I was expecting to get lower vacuum readings than I did when that carb was on the 40HP. And I did, it took slightly higher RPMs to get the same vacuum pull. But I was surprised that it "topped out" at a higher vacuum pull - on the 40HP it was somewhere a little over 100, and it went up to 120 on the 1600DP.

EDIT - Some Other Carbs

BOCAR 34PICT-3

I recieved one of these, inexpensively, and got it running and put it on the aforementioned 1600DP on my baja. I put on my vacuum gauge and found I was getting a large amount of vacuum showing as soon as the throttle was opened. It jumped right up to the 300 mmHG level and would be from 300-400 mm HG at just about all RPMs.

I also put a European German 31PICT-3 on the 1385 in my 62. It did the same thing pretty much as far as vacuum went.

But I did check, and the 30PICT-1s still did read about as in that chart above. In any case, I'm not sure if I like either of those carbs. I might be wrong, but it seems like there is just too much vacuum, and I think it could too much for proper function of the vacuum canister of an SVDA or DVDA. (the way they are supposed to back off when cruising then the centrifugal advance is all you have) here are pictures of the advance drillings of these two carbs:

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Part 2:
Can the H30/31 be modified to work with an SVDA or DVDA??


That was a question that popped into my head. I had done the previous testing over a period of a couple of weeks and was going to post the results, but then I realized there was one more thing I should attempt first. I wanted to see what would happen if you went and blocked off that upper vacuum port on the H30/31 - to see how it then pull for vacuum advance. I made the mod, and tested it on my 40HP for the time being. Unfortunately, this time that H30/31 ran even worse this time. It ran so poorly in fact that I don't think my test meant much. I was able to determine though that it did pull a LOT more vacuum as soon as the throttle was opened. Actually too much/too soon for an SVDA or DVDA. So much that the 40HP distributor would advance almost instantly, so I had to do my tests with the vacuum disconnected and plugged so I could at least hold some steady engine speeds. it was up to 100mmHg by 1200RPM and 200mmHg by 2200 RPM. See the chart below.

I knew I should repeat this test on the baja's 1600 DP engine, which I got around to a week later. I also swapped it back over to my old 034 SVDA distributor. In the intervening week, I did blow out the carb hoping it would run better this time - and it it did, slightly. At least it held an idle 95% of the time. Since I used an SVDA I was able to leave the vacuum hose connected this time and to get more worthwhile RPM vs. Vacuum readings. I expected to find higher RPMs than on the single port 40HP engine to get similar vacuum readings, and I was right. Vacuum jumped up just as the throttle was opened, and went up rapidly. I was up to 200mmHg by 2400 RPM with the vac line connected. (I tried it with the vacuum line unhooked and plugged as on the 40HP, and was surprised it only took around 2000RPM to get to that 200mmHg vacuum pull! but that was the only time I left the vacuum unhooked for this test) All the numbers I got are in the chart below.

Clearly, just this modification alone is not sufficient to make this carb compatible with a SVDA. Because the advance climbs too quickly at too low of RPM. Also I noticed that the vacuum would not fall off when you'd let off the throttle at higher RPMs, but would actually climb a bit. Which is not desirable.

Next, since I don't intend to ever use this carb again, I decided to enlarge that advance drilling above the throttle butterfly. I used the smallest bit I had in my toolbox, a 1/16, to do this, and my hole is at an angle since that's the only way you can get to it. I then put that carb back on the 1600 and checked again. I found the larger lower drilling did make it so the advance pulled slightly weaker, so it needed more RPM. And it allowed for the vacuum to fall off when you'd back off on the throttle at higher RPMs. However above about 2600RPM it was at 200mmHg of vacuum and rising. Then it would go all the way up to 400mmHg with this mod and even though it would now back off a bit when you'd let off the throttle, it wasn't enough so that the SVDA or DVDA vac unit would pull back, I doubt even under loaded conditions it would work.

So just plugging off the upper port and enlarging the bottom drilling are not enough to make this perform like 34PICT-3 and be suitable for an SVDA. Next I went and unplugged that upper port and checked to see how it did then, now that the lower drilling had been permanently enlarged. This was a surprise; the vacuum numbers were much better, a lot closer to the 34PICT-3. Would that be enough to make it suitable for a SVDA or DVDA? I do not think so. I think the advance port higher in the venturi would still prevent proper operation, I'd have to test it out in a loaded situation to know that for sure. The vacuum did pull back a bit when you'd let off on the throttle at higher RPMs, but Im still not thinking it would be enough to the let the vacuum canister of an SVDA/DVDA drop out like it needs to do. The maximum pull I was able to get with this configuration was around 230mmHg, a lot less than the 400+ I got on the previous test. Maybe if you only partially blocked off that upper port you could make it work.

Here is the chart with my rough unscientific RPM vs. vacuum pull in mmHg for the various carbs I slapped onto both engines. As well as the numbers from the modified carb testing as just described:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Conclusions and notes:

The H30 is clearly NOT suitable to be used with an SVDA - or a DVDA, despite it having a vacuum port for a retard hose. It does not provide enough vacuum advance, unless modified. I think with the proper modifications it could be made to work OK though. Just what those mods are though, is hard to say for sure. Enlarging the bottom drilling plus restricting the upper one might work.

But left without any mods, I would recommend the H30/31 PICT use same vacuum-only distributor that the 30PICT-3 or 30PICT-2 was matched with, a "T" or perhaps an "M" unit. Actually, I think many of the other distributors used with the 30 series carbs would also be "OK", as long as you time them properly.

Some extra notes - I didn't do any tests on a 28PICT during this, but from observation, the larger the hole you get in that advance vacuum pipe at the top of the venturi, the lower amount of total vacuum pull you will get to the distributor advance and probably a flatter advance curve. Which is right in line with the specs in the old Bentley books, the old 40HP distributors reached total advance a lot lower vacuum pull than later ones. Fully advanced by around 45mmHg.

The 1300/1500 K distributor reached full advance at around 65mmHg. And the "M", "T", etc. distributors used on the late 1500 and 1600SP got there around 75-80mmHg.

While I'm here, I'll re-post the charts that show the various combinations of 30 and 34 series carburetors and distributors, which I've gone and made some more notes/revisions to. Also note, these charts are by no means complete, I've seen other base flange numbers then the ones listed, these are only the ones I have any info on.

-Andy

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Last edited by glutamodo on Mon May 25, 2009 5:45 am; edited 4 times in total
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Man_Doun
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked



do you even have a day-job?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy-

Great job here! You are becoming the Solex guru on the Samba!

I think this should be a sticky!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice.

Very nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject: Re: Comparing stock Solex carbs to each other, and to the H3 Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:

The H30 is clearly NOT suitable to be used with an SVDA - or a DVDA, despite it having a vacuum port for a retard hose. It does not provide enough vacuum advance, unless modified.


First of all, thanks for the excellent post and all the hard work that went into it. I'm going to print it out and re-read it a few times to be sure I understand it.

I have a H30/31 PICT carb and several months ago I replaced my 009 with a SVDA from aircooled.net. I immediately noticed that the "flat spot" was greatly reduced. When I set the timing as per the instructions that came with the dizzy (30 degrees advance with the vacuum line plugged), then reconnect the vacuum hose, I get about 40 degrees advance at 3000 rpm (which was exactly what the dizzy instructions said to expect), so the carb is definitely providing vacuum for the advance. I am almost certain the carb has not been modified.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man_Doun wrote:
Shocked

do you even have a day-job?


LOL, well...... sort of. I work a 7 day on/7 day off shift.

Goranothos: - well you do get "some" vacuum to the advance unit from an H30/31, not nearly enough to totally advance the distributor, but enough for partial. About a year ago I tried my stock 034 SVDA unit in conjunction with the 30PICT-1 on my baja. This was before I even considered doing any of this testing or comparison, I was just trying to see how it ran on there. It was OK, but I liked how it ran with the "K" distributor better. Now that I actually have numbers, and know much more about how these things work, I know that I was a similar situation - where I was only, at best, getting partial vacuum advance from my stock 034, so the centrifugal was doing a large part of the advance work. In your case, this partial amount of advance, combined with whatever tweaks that aircooled.net does to the centrifugal advance of their SVDA units, probably combined to make your car run better.

One thing I did not have the opportunity to do is to compare any BOCAR and BROSOL 34PICT-3 carbs to the SVDA and DVDA German varities I had. If anyone has one of these apart sometime in the future, and a decent camera with a good macro mode, please take some similar pics and tack them onto this thread, I'd be interested in seeing what the advance drillings look like in comparison.

-Andy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
About a year ago I tried my stock 034 SVDA unit in conjunction with the 30PICT-1 on my baja.


Ahhh, I think this is where the difference must lie. When you buy a SVDA from aircooled.net, you must choose which carb you are using before you can complete the order. I imagine that they tweak the dizzys differently for the different carbs, perhaps making the ones for the 30 series carbs more sensitive.

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGD0001&cartid=


glutamodo wrote:

In your case, this partial amount of advance, combined with whatever tweaks that aircooled.net does to the centrifugal advance of their SVDA units, probably combined to make your car run better.



Aye, either that or they use a more sensitive vacuum can on the SVDAs they sell for use with the 30 series carbs. I suppose they only way to find out is to ask them.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goranothos wrote:

Aye, either that or they use a more sensitive vacuum can on the SVDAs they sell for use with the 30 series carbs. I suppose they only way to find out is to ask them.


I think that all the "small diameter" vacuum canisters you can get require a much larger amount of vacuum pull to move - it's a matter of physics, the smaller the surface area of the diaphram, the more vacuum it will take to deflect it. Plus the small ones as the 034 uses, have all of their return spring action built into them, unlike the 1970/earlier units where there is a tension-adjustable return spring inside the distibutor itself. But maybe there is some way to make the small units more sensitive.

As for what aircooled.net exactly does to their units, well, I'm not going to ask that question, their SVDAs have a very good reputation and I think whatever they do in fact do to them should qualify a proprietary secret that they have every right to keep to themselves. My intent here was mostly to compare carbs, at first it was only to be visual, the function testing came later on.

-Andy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy,
Just scanned your post but fanstastic information. This cooincides with what I found when trying to put a stock 34-3 on my car. I noticed that the hole in the throttle plate was different for different carbs, still haven't played around with changing it out but your post tells me that it may be more than the plate that's different.

Thanks -
Greg
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man_Doun wrote:
Shocked



do you even have a day-job?


LOL..that's exactly what I was thinking as I was reading the post. Seriously though, great job and thanks for posting all that info.
When are you going to get started on Kadrons?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: Well I took the week off and decided to do an experiment. I put the 009 (carb is H30/31) back in, set the timing and took 'er for a test drive. You know what? I can't tell any difference. None. Perhaps the timing was set improperly when I previously had the 009 in. I noticed no flat spot.

Andy, I believe you are correct that the H30/31 carb will not benefit from an SVDA distributor. Mine ran fine with the SVDA, but it runs just as well with a properly timed Bosch 009, leading me to believe that I was mostly just getting the centrifugal advance from the SVDA.

John at aircooled.net says "30 Series carbs can NOT use the SVDA distributor since the vacuum signal is not correct and won't pull the advance in on the small canned SVDA (you notice the early distributors use larger vacuum cans than later distributors because the vacuum signal is different)." http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/distributor.htm

I'm leaving the 009 in for now. I'll probably wind up switching to a 30PICT1 and a rebuilt dizzy from Glenn sometime in the future. The combo I have now runs fine, but the H30/31 can be fussy, and I prefer simplicity.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently put a stock 1600DP in my 74 Beetle, when my 1904 blew, and it had a Solex H30/31 PICT carb with a German 009. It ran OK, but not great. I swapped the 009 with a stock 034 and found no improvement. I then swapped the 034 for a 010 and found it accelerated quicker, pulled harder and ran smoother.

Now this was just taking a few short trips, but with the 010 it was clearly more "fun" to drive.

The engine idles smooth as silk and has not hesitation.

I them tried the same with a 34PICT-3 and it was a dog.

The Solex H30/31PICT and 010 was a the best combo of the group.
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Failer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goranothos wrote:
John at aircooled.net says "30 Series carbs can NOT use the SVDA distributor since the vacuum signal is not correct and won't pull the advance in on the small canned SVDA (you notice the early distributors use larger vacuum cans than later distributors because the vacuum signal is different)." http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/distributor.htm


I noticed this a while ago and sent the question to John.



----- Original Message -----
Subject: SVDA Dizzy
In your tech article you state that the SVDA is not appropriate for the 30-series carb, but in the product options for that dizzy, the 30/31 carb is there. Will this combination work correctly on my SP 1600 with a Brosal 30/31? If so, is it the same port, on the left side?

John replies:

the article is outdated; since then we have come out with one for your carb
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Last edited by Failer on Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
The Solex H30/31PICT and 010 was a the best combo of the group.


How about the 019? What is the difference between the 010 and 019?

Sorry to hear about your engine, Glenn. Sad
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't have a 019 in stock. The 019 works the same as the 010 but has a few less degrees advance and the advance comes in a bit later.

019s work great on stock engines. I just installed one on a friends stcok 1600DP with a 34PICT-3 and it runs great.
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Failer wrote:

John replies:

the article is outdated; since then we have come out with one for your carb


Cool, I knew from the limited experiments mentioned above,that modifying an H30/31 to work properly w/SVDA should be possible, but despite the info I put into this thread, I'm not really a carburator expert. I'm glad that someone who is has gone and determined and made the modifications needed to make the H30/31 work that way.

Of course, that leaves thousands of H30/31s out there that aren't appropriate for SVDA work. So this thread should still be of interest to them. I don't know what the mods needed would be, probably plugging the upper vacuum port, and doing something to the drillings at bottom, I think adding a couple of small extra drillings might do it (I wasn't equipped with any micro-drills for my tests)

I'm not sure if this topic rates a "Sticky' though, I am flattered, but I wasn't really expecting that. I mean, although I did put a lot of work into taking the pictures, then doing the various tests, it was something I spread out over a few months time. And I almost didn't even post this, or just trimmed it back to the basic "photo essay" it was going to be in the first place.

And one last set of statements here - there are always going to be "exceptions to the rule" you might say. I've seen a few carb/dizzy combos that worked very good together that I would not expect to work out. Then there's correct carb/dizzy combos that, usually because of wear, don't work at all. Last summer for a time I was running an old 034 SVDA in my baja, that's the one with a 30PICT-1 on a 1600DP. It ran OK, but after doing all these tests, I now know that the vacuum advance was doing very little most of the time, so basically, it was running like an 009. And I like how it runs with the "K" distributor better.

I never meant to indicate that the H30/31 was a complete piece of rubbish. Just indicate that it's not designed for any specific appliation, and that (unmodified) it is wrong for the application that many people are using them for (and some stores are selling them for), dual port SVDA or DVDA.

And now, Glenn did some mix'n'matching on his new engine (I'm also sorry to hear about the 1904 Crying or Very sad ) and found a good combo that worked for him.

One final thing, for those who might be interested, I noticed that CIP1 now lists a brand new EMPI Rolling Eyes brand 30PICT-1. I'm sure this is the first time you could get a brand new 30PICT-1 since Bocar discontinued production several years ago. And, of course, since I'm a fan of the 30PICT-1, espeicially the newer ones Bocar made, find that interesting. Has anyone bought/used/ seen one of these in person? I don't need one, I have an NOS BOCAR version on the shelf, so I'm not about to plunk down 160 bucks for one anytime soon. But am kind of interested in the quality of this. I guess it depends I guess on just who EMPI contracted with to make them. They look OK in the pictures. I wonder if they have a roll pin for the fast idle cam retainer like the BOCAR ones had, instead of the solid pin the German ones used (the roll pin holds up a lot better)

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D98%2D1288%2DB

-Andy
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 72 super has a Solex H30/31PICT and I was told that a 009 would give me improvements over the stock setup, is this false?
Also would the how to keep your vw alive book guide me for the install?
Or should I look else where?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrockGrimes wrote:
My 72 super has a Solex H30/31PICT and I was told that a 009 would give me improvements over the stock setup, is this false?
Also would the how to keep your vw alive book guide me for the install?
Or should I look else where?


It really depends on what you have for a distributor right now. What is the number on it?

The problem is that the vacuum signal sent from a H30/31 carb is different than the 34PICT3 carb that came with the car. The best fix is to buy a good rebuilt German 34PICT3 from somebody like this

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=429441

The 009 distributor doesn't care about the vacuum signature coming from the carb, but they do not work as well. Go here and read up http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/advance.htm
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Says bosch 983 on the cap unless you want the # off the lower half I can't see it it's on the back side. I'll break out the mirror....

Well it's made in germany and the #'s are:
---->4ufj
0707611320
113905205an


Last edited by BrockGrimes on Mon May 07, 2007 8:57 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 digit please and then go here to look it up.....


www.oldvolkshome.com
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