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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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crofty wrote: |
Wouldn't it also have a manual choke and the fuel pump looks wrong. |
Manual choke, and fuel pump pressure line would exit vertically to the carb.
Bastardbus,
You mentioned the pistons and cylinders are unique, also. Can you elaborate? |
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bastardbus Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2000 Posts: 1768 Location: Toledo, Ohio
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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VW Vet wrote: |
Bastardbus,
You mentioned the pistons and cylinders are unique, also. Can you elaborate? |
Yes, the outter diameter of the top of the cylinder is different (smaller I recall) from stock 40hp cylinders. Same with the bastard heads they match the bastard cylinders. I remeber when rebuilding mine I found out stock 40hp p/cs can NOT be used with bastard heads and vice versa. You HAVE to use bastard p/cs with bastard heads period. I remeber this clearly as even the copper/asbestos gasket between the cylinder and head is bastard only! I searched and searched and eventually had to buy a NOS bastard gasket set here on the samba for some $$$ to get them! They were larger then 36s and smaller then 40s I recall.
I have a couple sets of used p/cs in the shed and can take a picture or two. I actually scored a NOS set which I rebuilt my `60 camper's engine with. Still have the box with the part number which I saved the used ones in. The bastard ones even look different then 40s....I recall they lacked that machined groove around top of the cylinder 40s have as well as some other things I can not recall...I tried to sell the set on the samba years back with not a single person interested! Wanted $40 for the set honed with new rings!Sorry they are not for sale now...I scored another engine I want to use them on....anyhow I will snap some pics tonight!
Todd _________________ Samba Member #95 |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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bastardbus wrote: |
anyhow I will snap some pics tonight!
Todd |
I want to see the picture of you after taking delivery of the NOS set! |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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This cylinder was removed from the engine shown in the first post of this thread. It was in position #3. The other cylinders do not have the narrowed section like this one.
Has anyone seen this type? What is the purpose of the reduced diameter area and how long were they issued?
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14266 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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My original 40 horse pistons all had that. I was told by VW parts guys it was a gas trap and to make sure the copper seals were installed accurately. Apparently it helps it cool at the hot end of the stroke? It sure was hard getting the seals aligned and even seeing them in place. |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Here is a head removed from the engine in this thread. It is a bastard head, but I suspect it is a 2nd generation. The little chamber over the rocker box has no holes leading into the rocker box, and there is no provision for bolting on a separate cover for the little chamber, as pictured in the Bentley manual. I would bet the original intent of the chamber was to vent the crankcase/rocker box. The little cover and holes into the rocker box seem to have disappeared in January '60 when the #2 main bearing web was cut to improve crankcase internal pressure equalization. The now unused chamber went away in June '61.
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69820 Location: Phoenix Metro
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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here's a bastard fuel pump i have. notice how the fuel outlet line sticks straight up, and the casting where the tube enters is not tapped with a block-off screw. some early 40hp pumps have a vertical outlet that looks similar, but with a bent pipe, and that casting boss has a screw in it, maybe for cleaning it out?.
i saw an NOS bastard case at a show over the summer, and it was pretty interesting. it did not have that weird webbing under the distributor down the side. HUGE main seal area, 36hp sized main bearing holes. cool.
_________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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hazetguy wrote: |
here's a bastard fuel pump i have. notice how the fuel outlet line sticks straight up, and the casting where the tube enters is not tapped with a block-off screw. some early 40hp pumps have a vertical outlet that looks similar, but with a bent pipe, and that casting boss has a screw in it, maybe for cleaning it out?.
i saw an NOS bastard case at a show over the summer, and it was pretty interesting. it did not have that weird webbing under the distributor down the side. HUGE main seal area, 36hp sized main bearing holes. cool.
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I remember seeing a tech bulletin about bending the pipe for clearance, Clarence. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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bastardbus Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2000 Posts: 1768 Location: Toledo, Ohio
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Well, VW vet and myself have been pooling information and plan on adding a ton of info to this thread. Very interesting stuff and most of it very contrary to the old wive's tales told about Bastard engines.
Just for a taste, looks like there was 3 styles of bastard case. The first being the flawed thrust at #2 design the 2 others had the thrust at #1 and problems mostly solved. This is probably the reason for several existing bastard engines still running and in good shape.
More detailed info to come!
Todd _________________ Samba Member #95 |
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Russ Wolfe Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004 Posts: 25187 Location: Central Iowa
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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My heads left last Friday for VW Vet. I hope they are what he was looking for. _________________ Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Here is some more info about the Bastard Engine.
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vdubinit Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1870 Location: central coast
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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i have a bastard motor and it runs cherry i havent had any problems with it yet opps knock on wood _________________ **WANTED** ONE 4 1/2 EARLY FUCH |
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bastardbus Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2000 Posts: 1768 Location: Toledo, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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vdubinit wrote: |
i have a bastard motor and it runs cherry i havent had any problems with it yet opps knock on wood |
Please, tell us what your engine number is!
As VWVet continues the Bastard information thread he has been putting together with some help by yours truely, you will see that only the First Generation Bastard engines had the castostrophic failures due to the main bearing thrust being taken at the #2 main bearing.
With the Second and Third generation Bastard engines, VW fixed the "bastard engine failure problem" when they moved the crankshaft thrust back to the #1 main bearing as in the previous 36 hp engines. Thus you will find many of the 2nd and 3rd generation bastard engines that have led normal happy lives.
It is only the first generation bastard engines that had these failures. Now if someone has a first genertaion bastard engine with the thrust still at the #2 main bearing still running and driving...well THEN you have something there! I have yet to see one of these still running or an original that has not destroyed itself some decades ago. _________________ Samba Member #95 |
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VW Vet Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006 Posts: 218 Location: Maine
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I neglected to give credit to bastardbus for the picture of the 1st generation bastard head. Also, the pictures of the 3rd generation bastard head are of one of the two Russ Wolfe sent me. After cleaning and inspection, they are almost like new. No need for a valve job or valve guide replacement. Just a little lapping compound is all they will need. Thanks, Russ. I will have to do some research into the valve seat/lead free gas issue, though. |
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splitpile Samba's Worst Speller
Joined: May 03, 2000 Posts: 5927 Location: back to living where hell meets the suface
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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VW Vet wrote: |
I neglected to give credit to bastardbus for the picture of the 1st generation bastard head. Also, the pictures of the 3rd generation bastard head are of one of the two Russ Wolfe sent me. After cleaning and inspection, they are almost like new. No need for a valve job or valve guide replacement. Just a little lapping compound is all they will need. Thanks, Russ. I will have to do some research into the valve seat/lead free gas issue, though. |
My late59/60 SC had a basterd in it. The speedo shows 27000 original miles when it was parked due to engine failure. When I bought the bus, the engine was gone, but all the basterd exterior parts were still with it in a box.
A big bore 40 hp was built using all the basterd engine tin and bolt ons. _________________ Stocking distributor of "The Funky Green Panels"
www.BUSTORATION.com metal and more for your bus
"no more hacking my sig line" |
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Michael Fischer Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004 Posts: 1585 Location: Salem, OR
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Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I was wondering what these where for. I almost threw them away. |
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skyto Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Finland
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: |
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How about these then: a pair of 113 101 371 heads with later style valve covers, without chambers below manifold. Otherwise they are similar to 40hp heads except for cylinder openings: 87mm instead of 90mm.
Perhaps a 4th generation replacement for the bastard heads? |
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: |
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skyto wrote: |
How about these then: a pair of 113 101 371 heads with later style valve covers, without chambers below manifold. Otherwise they are similar to 40hp heads except for cylinder openings: 87mm instead of 90mm.
Perhaps a 4th generation replacement for the bastard heads? |
wouldn't it be a 77mm? _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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skyto Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 177 Location: Finland
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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crofty wrote: |
wouldn't it be a 77mm? |
87 = outer diameter. The heads are unused because of this. |
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