| Do you have the factory spring cooling thermostat? |
| Yes, and it just like butter! |
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75% |
[ 39 ] |
| No, it's in the shed with my 009! |
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17% |
[ 9 ] |
| HUH? what the f**k is a thermostat? |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 52 |
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| Author |
Message |
73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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 Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: Type IV fan bellows thermostat |
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Ok, I was talking with Chris from Busted Bus on tuesday, and he said it was really necessary to have the fan bellows damper thermostat installed for proper performance.
When I got my bus it was missing, and I am just wondering how many of you have them installed, and the pro's n con's.
I have a 73kombi with a 1800cc and dual after market solex's, and I like the nice open look it provides. I just ordered an SVDA Dizzy today, and was considering putting one of these fan thermo's on if it was really advised.
What say You?
Hmmnnn.... over 225 views and only 20 votes......don't be shy.
This poll is not scientific! It's just Samba
I can't change the wording in the poll, however see post #2
Last edited by 73kombi on Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:02 am; edited 4 times in total |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7093
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: |
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your terminology is odd. you mean the bellows thermostat that controls the air vanes inside the fan shroud, correct?
_________________
SL |
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73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Exactly! the bellows......I will update my post! |
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pawesty
Samba Medic
Joined: June 28, 2003
Posts: 1545
Location: Northern Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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important and i have them. not to dis chris, but, i'm sure the German engineers had an idea of what they were doing. just my .2
_________________
"Go smell the wind, go far. Hear the marvelous strange chime of midnight" Kerouac
79 westy
78 westy
purveyor of refurbed westies and parts!!! inquire within!
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VWBusrepairman
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| yes, it's an original thermostat (on my engine) but the cable has been changed. The thermostat is to decrease engine wear by allowing the cylinders to get to running temp. more quickly. (gasoline engines are more efficient when running at the correct temp). My 2¢... |
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pb24ss
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2005
Posts: 1665
Location: sitting around the fire with the bluegrass band - colorado
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I have one on my type4, but it's for a type1 engine. It opens at 65-70 degrees rather than 85-90. Chris had a few of the type4 ones that were still good, but he asn't parting with them last i checked. |
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EdW
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 2385
Location: Unemployment Office
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Very important. Chris is right and you should get the proper set up for your motor.
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20‰
| Quote: |
| I would call him a dick, but a dick has a head on it |
Last edited by bljones on Today 4:20am; edited 1 time in total |
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renobdarb
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2005
Posts: 878
Location: Eastern Idaho
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| Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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If you're in a very warm climate, it's not the end of the world if you don't have a thermostat. But if you live in a place where the temp gets below, say, 80 degrees, you should have the thermostat. It increases the life of your engine. If you don't have one installed (or it isn't working), the cooling flaps should automatically be in the open position.
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1978 Campmobile, 2000cc w/hydro lifters, dual Weber 44 IDF carbs (50 idle jets, 115 main jets), SVDA distributor w/Compufire. |
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73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Well thanks for all the input!
I was kind of shocked by the poll though. I would have figured there were
more me types out there that didnt have the thermo.
And I do live in the coldest of colds, so I will look into installing one before the winter rolls around again.
In any case, thanks Samba.
peace |
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Jeff Geisen
Samba Chaplain
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 1881
Location: N.W. Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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... VW installed thermoststs on all of their engines, regardless of their destination's climate. It always amazes me when air cooled engine experts tell someone the if they don't live in a cold climate, then they don't need a thermostat and flaps operating correctly. The whole idea is to keep the cool air off of your heads and cylinders during the critical warm up time. If you choose to disable your cooling system, then you are dumping cool air onto your top end and keeping your cylinders tight on your pistons, causing extra cylinder, ring and piston skirt wear and also binding the wrist pins every time you start and or drive you air cooled vehicle. The head is heating up on the inside, but being cooled on the outside like the engine is at full operating temperature, contributing to cracked heads, increased valve guide wear, and for you suitcase engine people... the dreaded dropped valve seats.
I wonder how many of the automotive engineers that deem their ACVWs don't need a complete cooling system remove the fan clutch and the thermostat from their water cooled vehicles?
Whatever, just my opinion... throwing in my .2 worth. Peace out!
_________________
I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5
‘63 ragtop - ‘68 single cab |
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covelo
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2005
Posts: 825
Location: Fairfax, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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In my case it's not just preventing wear on the engine. It also makes the bus run a lot better when warming up. Mine was missing when I got my bus, and when I bought one and put it on it made a huge difference. San Francisco is one of those places where it almost never gets hot, so it can take a very long time for an engine without thermostat to properly warm up in city driving.
_________________
'80 Vanagon Westfalia
'72 Bay Window Westfalia (with 2L AVP engine and dual solex carbs) -- sold in 2009 |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1396
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Jeff Geisen wrote: |
| It always amazes me when air cooled engine experts tell someone the if they don't live in a cold climate, then they don't need a thermostat and flaps operating correctly. |
It also always amazes me when local VW mechanics and garages here in Halifax tell me you don't need a thermostat either. And I live in a cool climate, to say the least. One problem I had was that one of the studs for the thermostat bracket was broken off flush, so I couldn't mount one anyway. I recently had that fixed, and a couple days ago I installed a beetle thermostat for the first time since I've owned my bus.
You have to be careful around here, because of the dearth of VW mechanics, not to contradict them too strenuously, because these are the guys who inspect your vehicle for the annual safety inspections, and you don't want to piss them off with a "holier than thou" attitude. Saying "I read it on the internet" (which is exactly what happened with me and The Samba) sounds pretty lame. Also, aside from their anti - thermostat dispositions, they generally do good work.
On the other hand, I was missing a ton of "mandatory" engine cooling tin on my 2.0 L FI engine for the first 5 years that I owned it. No front or rear air deflectors on either side, no bottom cyl head deflector on pass side, no lower deflectors on either side, no critical oil cooler air deflector tin, open heater booster tin holes on both sides, no alternator plug, no spark plug rubber seals. I could go on and on.
So, you can see, the lack of a thermostat was the least of my worries. I know that some irreversible damage and wear have already occurred, but all one can do is go forth. With the help of Karl, Scott at germansupply, and a few others, I've slowly and steadily got it mostly back to where it should be.
_________________
Darryl
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'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
| Meyer wrote: |
| Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
Last edited by dwill49965 on Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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germansupplyscott
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004
Posts: 7093
Location: toronto
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| 73kombi wrote: |
| And I do live in the coldest of colds, so I will look into installing one beforethe winter rolls around again. |
you need it in the summer too. if you have a type 4 engine without a thermostat, but you still have the flaps in place, then you are not getting proper cooling air to your oil cooler, as well as the warmup features noted above. on a type 4 the air flaps not only route air to the cylinders to cool them, but also control the amount of air to the oil cooler. without the tstat, the oil cooler does not get the ram air effect of the left flap in its open position.
_________________
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73kombi
Banned
Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 1215
Location: ~The London Bridge, AZ~
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Great thread with many readers......not too many pollsters, but WTF, its Samba, and I hope many will benefit from this thread.
I will be installing one ASAP as the drift of the thread says it's pretty necessary.
Again, thanks to all who voted, and most thanks to those that replied!
peace
p.s. BTW where the hell is Colin? |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| germansupplyscott wrote: |
| 73kombi wrote: |
| And I do live in the coldest of colds, so I will look into installing one beforethe winter rolls around again. |
you need it in the summer too. if you have a type 4 engine without a thermostat, but you still have the flaps in place, then you are not getting proper cooling air to your oil cooler, as well as the warmup features noted above. on a type 4 the air flaps not only route air to the cylinders to cool them, but also control the amount of air to the oil cooler. without the tstat, the oil cooler does not get the ram air effect of the left flap in its open position. |
Had to dig this up....
???
Without a T-stat the flaps fail open and the oil cooler will get ram air and the P/C's wil get air as if the engine had a correctly functioning T-stat at operating temperature. One just looses the ability to warm up quickly without a correctly functioning T-stat. That is if the owner even has cooling flaps and a fail safe spring installed on the flaps.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I can't answer the poll question because my answer doesn't quite fit the answers allowed. Mine is missing, but I intend to reinstall it as time and money permits. There are actually more pressing issues right now. For what it's worth, I live in a Mediteranian climate, so right now I'm not worried about huge temperature swings of the cooling air. I might actually drive it around the block once a week. I do not have any trips planned, nor is it a daily driver...yet!
That said, this is the best reason I've seen to have them installed...and functioning:
| Jeff Geisen wrote: |
... VW installed thermoststs on all of their engines, regardless of their destination's climate. It always amazes me when air cooled engine experts tell someone the if they don't live in a cold climate, then they don't need a thermostat and flaps operating correctly. The whole idea is to keep the cool air off of your heads and cylinders during the critical warm up time. If you choose to disable your cooling system, then you are dumping cool air onto your top end and keeping your cylinders tight on your pistons, causing extra cylinder, ring and piston skirt wear and also binding the wrist pins every time you start and or drive you air cooled vehicle. The head is heating up on the inside, but being cooled on the outside like the engine is at full operating temperature, contributing to cracked heads, increased valve guide wear, and for you suitcase engine people... the dreaded dropped valve seats.
I wonder how many of the automotive engineers that deem their ACVWs don't need a complete cooling system remove the fan clutch and the thermostat from their water cooled vehicles?
Whatever, just my opinion... throwing in my .2 worth. Peace out! |
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tootype2crazy
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: St. Louis Missouri
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:44 am Post subject: |
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I voted yes but a better title for this thread would be "Do you run a thermostat?" I agree your terminology is strange. It would be best to leave off all the adjectives and just call it a thermostat, we will know what you mean.
_________________
air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's) |
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my59
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2003
Posts: 3789
Location: connecting the dots
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I keep T-stats on all the air cooled engines.
You can be sure if the engineers who designed the system did not need a T-stat for temp. control, there would be no T-stat, as it would be a more elegant solution- something that would have warmed an engineer's heart.
I'd wager a no T-stat solution was more expensive, and thus the simple set up used warmed the bean counters hearts.
_________________
my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50332
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: |
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I would be with renobdarb on this. If your cold start temperatures are above 80°F and especially if you never take short drives and live in the desert (low humidity) then the thermostat isn't going to do much for you. If you are driving year around in a cold climate, live in a humid area, or take mostly short trips then the thermostat becomes much more necessary.
When mine failed several years back I first knew something was wrong when I noticed the buildup of the milky white crud on the inside of the oil filler cap. Replaced the thermostat and the problem cleared right up. |
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