| Author |
Message |
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| wridej wrote: |
I just had a go at lowering the front of my notch and now I need some advice on how to close this clamp up (at the bottom) enough to be able to thread the bolt back in.
any effort to try just starts stripping the thread on the bolt. 
|
Have you reset the spline yet? I'm only asking as you have to spread that gap to get the ball joint out.
If you've already reset the lower torsion bar, then you'll need to tap the ball joint in a little further, and probably use a wrench (that fits the flats) to find the spot where the bolt passes thru.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
You have to wiggle,pry until the inner splines/arm comes loose. Only lower it 2 inner splines  Use a small mirror & flashlight to look through/inspect the lower ball joint bolt hole for proper ball joint alignment. It helps to have a jack underneath to compress everything together & get the lower bolt in without stripping it out!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bent_karma
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2010
Posts: 291
Location: Modesto, CA.
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
I'm trying to figure out what I did wrong.
Around 6 years ago I lowered the back 3 splines and the front 1 or 2 splines I don't remember. So I had to replace one trailing arm because I had an accident. I saw that the trailing arm was missing the bump stop notch it was grinded off. So now I'm trying to raise it up because it's sagging. I originally followed cugirs video on his 1969 but I guess he deleted his YouTube account, bummer, they were good too. So I followed this OP thread and I couldn't get it higher.
I numbered the plate 1,2,3 (3 being the lowest) set it on 1 put everything back together and when I dropped the jack it seems like it went to 3
_________________
'71 VW Bay Window Deluxe Bus [Busness] sold
'73 VW Thing [Agent Orange]
'71 VW Squareback (first air cooled/vw ever) sold
'07 Mazda3 Hatchback GT [the Mazda]
'06 Nissan Sentra 1.8 S (gone at the moment) sold
'18 Subaru Forester 2.5i [Sue Bee]
"Water is for drinking" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Notch_Norway
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2017
Posts: 41
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:23 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
I got the answer i needed  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
t-royR
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:27 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
looking for some clarity here. I have the Bentley manual, and the nice schematic they provide of the front end. I have read this thread, and others on lowering front end. I keep seeing mention of the "inner" splines and the "outer" splines. Can someone explain which is which?
To me, it appears that reference to "inner" splines, refers to where the torsion bar connects to the ball joint, and that the "outer" splines refers to where the other end of the torsion bar connects to the axle beam.
Please let me know if i have that incorrect. And if so, please help me understand what is referred to when "inner" or "outer" splines are discussed.
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| t-royR wrote: |
| To me, it appears that reference to "inner" splines, refers to where the torsion bar connects to the ball joint, and that the "outer" splines refers to where the other end of the torsion bar connects to the axle beam. |
That's backwards. "Outer" is the "wheel end."
This may not make sense if you just look at the front, but for the rear the bars are half-width and it's clear; to be consistent, we use "outer" for "wheel end" both front and rear. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
The inner splines are on the opposite end of the torsion bar. I just wiggled/pried my torsion bars out and lowered mine 2 inner splines. I then lowered the rear 1 inner spline which left me about level. My 185X60 & 205X70 tires on 5.5" wide ET40 OG 2.0 liter wheels gave me a 1.5" forward rake with 3.5" to my beam & no rubbing/dragging.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey
Last edited by Mike Fisher on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
t-royR
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
Thanks!
I am going to give it a try with the outer splines, to lower my 69 fastback, front-end, by two splines.
T-roy
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| t-royR wrote: |
Thanks!
I am going to give it a try with the outer splines, to lower my 69 fastback, front-end, by two splines.
T-roy |
Just my opinion, but I think indexing the inner splines is WAY easier than the outers.
Notching it down 2 inner splines up front will definitely get you reasonably slammed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| Boogievan wrote: |
| t-royR wrote: |
Thanks!
I am going to give it a try with the outer splines, to lower my 69 fastback, front-end, by two splines.
T-roy |
Just my opinion, but I think indexing the inner splines is WAY easier than the outers.
Notching it down 2 inner splines up front will definitely get you reasonably slammed. |
Agreed. You need a 10x1.50 bolt about 3 inches long to screw into the end you're removing, then re-index the bar, then slide it back into place. Remove the long bolt and swap back in the shorter bolt and clip. Button that side up and repeat for the other side. Once it's back together, check your toe in setting, and adjust as needed. You're looking for about 1/16th of an inch toe in.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
t-royR
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
so, am i to understand that by working the inner splines, i don't have to do any work around the wheel (removing ball joints and such)? if so, that would be much easier. I'll need to review the thread for specifics on how to proceed to adjust the inners.
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
Correct. If you were really ambitious, you could probably drop it without even pulling the tires off (although that would be pretty inconvenient).
I'm sure you can find a straight forward step by step thread and lose some altitude in no time.
And like Bob said, check the toe once it's back on the ground. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
t-royR
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:22 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
I am not finding a good thread on the inner spline adjustment. Help! And, I don't see much in Bentley on inner spline.
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| t-royR wrote: |
| so, am i to understand that by working the inner splines, i don't have to do any work around the wheel (removing ball joints and such)? if so, that would be much easier. I'll need to review the thread for specifics on how to proceed to adjust the inners. |
You do have to unbolt the lower ball joint from the spindle. Be sure to jack up the ball joint slightly to take the pressure off it before taking out the horizontal bolt. You will burr the threads if you do not take the downward pressure off of the horizontal bolt! BTDT That was my only real problem AFAIR. The $5 Magnetic Angle Gauge from Harbor Freight was nice for determining/comparing angles on each side.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
You do have to unbolt the lower ball joint from the spindle. |
That's probably true. I wanna say I have lowered the front of a few cars without unbolting the ball joint, but it has been a fair number of years since I've performed this procedure. Getting old over here....
Still not a difficult task to accomplish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| t-royR wrote: |
| I am not finding a good thread on the inner spline adjustment. Help! And, I don't see much in Bentley on inner spline. |
You won't find it referenced like that in Bentley. It's more of something we call the ends of the bar for reference purposes. The outer end is the end you see once you have the tire off. BUT, after 30+ years, you might not get that end to separate. That's why most here do an inner end adjustment. The inner end is the opposite end of the bar from the trailing arm. It's located on the other side of the car from the side you're working on, and is inside the beam (hence the "inner" end of the bar).
Yes, I kind of over simplified the instructions above, but I was trying to get you the jist of it. You do need to unbolt the shock on the side you're working on as it limits travel of the lower trailing arm. The lower ball joint needs to be removed from the spindle (regardless of doing an inner or outer spline drop), so you can move the trailing arm up or down (depending on whether you're raising or lowering the car).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JustBuggy
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2010
Posts: 849
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| Exactly what ball joint are you talking about? The rears have no ball joints per say, are you referencing the CV joint? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
| JustBuggy wrote: |
| Exactly what ball joint are you talking about? The rears have no ball joints per say, are you referencing the CV joint? |
Front lower ball joint. t-royR had questions about lowering the front specifically. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
t-royR
Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2012
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
OK, still focusing on the "inner" splines. What exactly is it that aligns with the inner splines? Looks to me like there is simply a bolt holding the torsion bar to the axle beam. If i remove that bolt, what is the next step for adjusting the splines? And again, what is it that aligns with the splines? The axle beam?
I see that when doing the "outer" splines, the torsion bar connects to the lower torsion bar, and where those two meet is where the spline alignment happens. If that is true, then I am still unclear on what aligns with the splines on inner end of the torsion bar.
I'm sure I sound like an idiot, but just failing to understand this from the bentley and the advise given here.
_________________
T-roy
75 Super
71 Super
71 Ghia coupe auto-stick
71 Ghia conv
69 Fasty
74 Ghia conv |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Boogievan
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: Port Orchard, WA.
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: Re: How to Lower / Raise Front and Rear Suspension |
|
|
You're on the right track here. The torsion bars basically cross one another and are held in place on the opposite side of the beam.
There is a splined retainer (don't know if that's the correct term) on the inside of the beam that the inner end of the torsion bar slides into. That is what actually holds it in place. The bolt just keeps the bar from sliding out of the 'retainer'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
