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RockStock
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 3924
Location: England
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 Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: Guide to Barndoor Front Seats |
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i have what I believe to be a barndoor front seat Backrest
how can I be sure it is a Backrest, and not a Base?
from this post, I’ve read a barndoor seat Base is flat, look like seat Backrests, but have a lot more springs?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158936&highlight=seat
Backrest = 10 x 3 springs = 30 springs (from my pics above)?
Base = 13 x 4 = 52 springs springs?
were there different versions of barndoor front seat Backrests?
when did the ‘barndoor’ front seat end production? Flat back, 1950-57?
searching TheSamba I found Everetts post on the ‘53’ front seat Base:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2388
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2387
so from this post it looks as if there were at least 3 different versions of Base:
1. 1953
2. 1953/54
3. 1954/55 (4 little feet)
what can you guys tell me
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Last edited by RockStock on Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EverettB 
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RockStock
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 3924
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Everett
So the latest summary would be:
1. Up to 53
Backrest 10 x 3 springs = 30 springs/No zigzag
Base = 13 x 4 = 52 springs/ No zigzag/2 little protrusions go backwards
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2387
2. Late53/early54
Backrest ? x ? springs = ?? springs/Zigzags?
Base = ? x ? = ?? springs/Zigzags?
3. Mid54/55
Backrest 8 x 3 springs = 24 springs/Zigzags
Base = 9 x 4 = 36 springs/Zigzags/4 little feet
Summary of differences between the Base and the Backrest
1. The Backrest has less springs than the Base
2. The Backrest springs have less coils per spring (one curve between the top and bottom spring ‘ends’) than the Base
3. If you're a large lad, go for the industrial <53 seat
This info has helped me identify some seat pics I have
For example, this set that was for sale on TheSamba recently:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=296420
(RockStock Wanted: One of these seats! 53 Backrest available in part exchange!)
Anyone got a pic of the 53/54 seat? Spring count? Distinguishing features?
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Last edited by RockStock on Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RockStock
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Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 3924
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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From JG's 20-088422
June 54 Bus
Shows Base - no feet - zigzags - does this make it a 53/54 seat?
not the best angle to count the springs!
From the recent Ebay ad
Part no. 211 881 305
Front Seat Base
9 x 4 = 36 springs makes it a 54/55 base?
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EverettB
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Kommercial
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Joined: December 28, 2000
Posts: 1154
Location: San Tan Valley, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:50 am Post subject: |
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My friend bought a lower BD seat recently. It is shown next to my 54-55 seat. His is 9x4 just like the 54/55, but with no feet, and the front most two rows of springs (closest to your kneecaps when driving) have less coil turns in each spring which make it a shorter profile and probably not as comfortable. The rear 2 rows of springs are identical on both seats. I think it is a late 53/early 54 bottom seat, can anyone confirm?
He is looking to trade/cash for a 54/55 seat, or at least the backrest to make this one complete. RockStock? |
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EverettB
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I checked my original March, 1954 seat out of my Truck and it looks the same. Really bad design with the weaker coils. The whole driver's side is wasted and the truck is fairly low mileage with the seat in original upholstery.
It has the little feet though. Maybe yours broke off? Or maybe there is another division of seat design.
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Barndoor Mafia
Il Capo
Joined: August 23, 2001
Posts: 6194
Location: EUSKAL HERRIA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Wade...........my September 54 Kombi has the bottom seat part with the little feet, though my early 53 Standard has the same back rest but the bottom seat part does'nt have the little feet?
When I took my seats to get blasted and powder coated, I also took BBJ's & Bones seats as well. Both of their BD's are 54's but allot earlier then mine. The seats were all exactly the same. We had to tag them in order not to getting them mixed up. |
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campingbox
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Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Barndoor Mafia wrote: |
Wade...........my September 54 Kombi has the bottom seat part with the little feet, though my early 53 Standard has the same back rest but the bottom seat part does'nt have the little feet?
When I took my seats to get blasted and powder coated, I also took BBJ's & Bones seats as well. Both of their BD's are 54's but allot earlier then mine. The seats were all exactly the same. We had to tag them in order not to getting them mixed up. |
The front seat in your '54 came from the molestor, you opted to have me keep the original front seat from your bus when you bought it. I think the frames were identical though. |
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Kommercial
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Location: San Tan Valley, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| It has the little feet though. Maybe yours broke off? Or maybe there is another division of seat design. |
They were for sure not broken off and there was deffinitely no evidence of the feet ever being on it. I went over the entire thing super closely looking and compared spots, no bead weld marks and no grind marks. So if your march 54 truck is small coils and with feet - this must be even earlier, yet later then the 53 with the tube cut-offs. When did the tube cut-offs end? So that actually makes 4 base versions, updating Rockstocks chart
Up to 53
Backrest 10 x 3 springs = 30 springs/No zigzag
(need pic)
Base = 13 x 4 = 52 springs/No zigzag/No feet/2 little protrusions go backwards
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2387
2. Late53/54
Backrest ? x ? springs = ?? springs/Zigzags?
(need pic)
Base = 9 x 4 = 36 springs /Zigzags/No feet
http://www.dropgates.com/bdseat5.jpg
3. jan54?-Oct54?
Backrest 8 x 3 springs = 24 springs/Zigzags
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=296317
Base = 9 x 4 = 36 springs/Zigzags/4 little feet
(need pic)
4. Nov54?-Mar55
Backrest 8 x 3 springs = 24 springs/Zigzags (same as previous backrest)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=296317
Base = 9 x 4 = 36 springs/Zigzags/4 little feet -Stronger coils with 3 turns.
http://www.dropgates.com/bdseat3.jpg
http://www.dropgates.com/bdseat4.jpg
Backrest remained the same through 57 (anyone know cutoff date?)
Last edited by Kommercial on Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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RockStock
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Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 3924
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Idiots Guide to Barndoor Front Seats |
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good details!
just to cover this one:
| RockStock wrote: |
| how can I be sure it is a Backrest, and not a Base? |
the circled piece always runs horizontally when the seat is in situ in the bus
(i.e. so this is a backrest)
| Kommercial wrote: |
| or at least the backrest to make this one complete. RockStock? |
yes K, that backrest in my first post may be available
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EverettB
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Barndoor Mafia wrote: |
| my September 54 Kombi has the bottom seat part with the little feet, though my early 53 Standard has the same back rest but the bottom seat part does'nt have the little feet? |
Your VIN # is 20-100408, right? This is October, 1954. The original front seat from your Kombi is in my '54 Truck and is pictured in the links above.
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EverettB
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Kais Collection
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BeaterBarndoor
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Joined: December 15, 2000
Posts: 824
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Guide to Barndoor Front Seats |
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Bringing up an old thread as I have been trying to custom build and figure out what front seat I need.
Figure it may benefit with the info I have come up with.
I had 2 buses within a couple months of each other.
My 53 is the beginning of Nov 53, My 54 is the beginning of Jan 54, about 5000 apart.
I was confused with the bottom frame. I have one that is a little frankenstein'd as the frame itself had been cobbled together with some other old seat frame piping but I left the 53 style "pipe extenders" section.
In my time of owning both buses I must have done some swapping around and 20 years later, my 53 sold, and I only have a seat bottom with my 54 which happens to be the 53 style.
I figured with all the talk of a "late53/ early 54" seat, maybe my bus used the 53 style and possibly only a spring style change.
Turns out it does not. It uses the 54 style with the 4 extender feet.
I dont believe there is an "in between" seat unless its just a springbed change.
I believe the frame itself either needs to be the 53 style with the pipe extenders or the 54 style with the feet extenders. No frame without either of those options(unless they fell off)
Below is the reason.
The frames are all the same size throughout basically all the split buses.
The holes on the body for the little rubber pads have changed position.
Youll see that in 53 and 54 the 2 center holes are in the same place. In 54 the 2 outer holes are in line with the center holes. In 53 those 2 outer holes are moved just slightly forward, about an inch.
So when you think on how the seat frame supports on the rubber pads, if you have a 53 style frame in a 54, only those 2 pipe extensions will sit on the rubber pads. the frame itself will extend forward past the 2 outer pads and will bend and seat onto the body metal. The 2 outer rubber pads will touch nothing at all.
If you put a 54 frame with the 4 extender feet into a 53 , the 2 inner feet will seat onto the center rubber pads , the 2 outer feet will float as the frame itself will seat onto the outer rubber pads.
A frame with no extensions at all in a 54, the frame will extend forward past all of the rubber pads and seat onto the body metal, none of the pads will touch anything.
Same feetless frame in a 53 , the frame will seat onto the outer rubber pads and the frame will bend in the center and seat onto the body metal and those inner rubber pads wont touch anything.
A lot of info to process and heres an image of my 53
and image of my 54
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Barndoor Mafia
Il Capo
Joined: August 23, 2001
Posts: 6194
Location: EUSKAL HERRIA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Guide to Barndoor Front Seats |
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DAMN MaHk!!! That is some serious information!!! I'm wondering if my seat as well was swapped out at one point with the current one?? I'm going to do a little checking up on both the bottom portion of the front seat and the front cab/body holes.
Regardless, I'm going to need some of those little feet for my front bottom seat. Thanks you for all the information and for providing "us" Barndoor owners these little necessary pieces to our puzzles. 
Awesome craftsmanship
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2448103 |
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RockStock
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Posts: 3924
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to Barndoor Front Seats |
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Yeah, cool!
And good work on making the feet
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Barndoor Mafia
Il Capo
Joined: August 23, 2001
Posts: 6194
Location: EUSKAL HERRIA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Guide to Barndoor Front Seats |
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Yo MaHK!!!!
I pulled out my front seat and low and behold I found 2 of those little feet bent in!!! The other 2 were missing but you can see they were once attached at where they were broken off.
So your theory is correct. My Panel is a May of 1954, and it doesn't have those 2 short tubes for support. Czech it out ...........
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