Which handbrake cable... 66 rear end on a 60

[smudge]

i think thats the bit you call an E-Brake.With the 66 drums would i need a 66 cable?there 20mm diference between to 60-63 and the 63-67. where would that diference be>

thanks

[Eric&Barb]

Hi Smudge,
First you need to procure 1966 cables. Next you need to tell us what year bus the tranny and cables are going into.
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[hazetguy]

[Eric&Barb]

[hazetguy]

if you do a simple profile search of the poster, you will read this by him:

[camerod]

if your bus has cable adjustment below the floor, SIMPLY use your original '55-mid '60 cables and extend them with 6mm all thread coupler nuts and two 3" pieces of all thread or 3" long 6mm bolts. tighten the allthread/bolts against the end of the ebrake cables using the coupler nuts, then use 6mm regular nuts to adjust the cables as stock...this works flawlessly!

if your bus is a late '60-63 just use the 64-64 cables as hazetguy suggested

BTW, if you have trouble finding the 6mm coupler nuts I can send them to you for $2.00 ea.
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[camerod]

BTW this is the method we supply with all or pre mid-'60 straight axle kits.
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DON'T SHIT WHERE YOU EAT!

[Campy]

If your bus used the shorter cables and the metal stop on the rear of the cable housing slips part way through the brake plate and is held on the plate by a clamp (the later brake plates you will have to use have a stop spot welded on the outside of the plate), all you have to do is modify the later plate to make it like the old style.
I did this to the later model brake plates for the big stub axle transaxles I put in my 1957 and 1958 buses and is the best way because you can use the older style emergency brake cables.
It's quite simple when you compare the hole with the clamp in the old plate with the later model plate and the spot welded on stop.

1) Grind off the four spot welds on the cable stop on the later model plate and remove it.

2) Enlarge the hole that is left so it matches the hole in the older plate; leave it a little shorter at the front of the plate so you can bend the front of the hole in a little (towards the brake drum) like the old plate, which guides the cable housing end in at the right angle.

3) Drill a small hole to match the one where the bolt screws in on the old plate to hold the removable clamp on. You can use a bolt and a nut like I did or you can tack weld on the nut on the inside of the brake plate to make it easier to screw on the bolt.

4) Use the clamps from your old brake plates on your later ones.

This is the most sanitary way to go because you can use the stock emergency brake cables and it makes it look stock.

[cdennisg]

[cdennisg]

Here is the modified big nut backing plate with the early cable routed and brake parts mocked up. Notice how the e-brake actuator lever appears to be slightly engaged. It seems that the spring covered section of cable is maybe an inch to short, from the hook on the end to the housing that passes through the backing plate. I am thinking of removing a small section of the black plastic covered cable housing, with the intention of lengthening the area shown. Sorry for the rotated pics. I didn't notice them until making this post. Should still be clear enough to understand.

The brake drum will fit on there right now, but the shoes in the mockup are worn. With new shoes, I'm not sure if the drum would clear since the e-brake is partly engaged.

Here is a stock big nut backing plate with a stock late cable. Notice the location of the hook end in relation to the outer edge of the backing plate. It appears to be about one inch longer than the early cable in this situation.


The cable is too short at the front of the bus, too. I found some 6mm barrel nuts locally (surprised) that I can use along with some sections of a bolt to lengthen the forward part of the cable as necessary.
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[cdennisg]

Also, no luck at any of the local places that I thought could modify cables. The motorcycle shop does them, but he did not have anything remotely close to the proper ends. I told him of the cable extender kit, and he recommended using it. I told him of my apprehension, and he said he has used them on motorcycle brake cables before without issue. Though he is out of the scene now, he built and raced moto-X and trials bikes for many years. He could not recall a failure with a clamped on cable end.

I will leave that as a last resort. I have the extender kit in my emergency/spare parts kit that I carry in the bus.
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[Campy]

Years ago, I put a 1967 transaxle in my 1957 bus, used modified backing plates, along with a set of stock emergency brake cables. I removed the transaxle from it about five years ago because it needed to be rebuilt and the bus has been parked ever since so I could restore it. I looked for the set of backing plates so I could compare them to the unmodified later model ones but I didn't see them. I will look again, later.
I found some that I had modified a few years ago but never used and compared one to an early model plate: the inner edge of the cable hole (after I enlarged the stock hole) is at least half an inch further out than the stock hole in the older plate because the diameter of the plate is greater. When the cable housing pedestal is removed from a later model plate, you will see that the hole in the plate is smaller than the hole in an earlier brake plate. The hole has to be enlarged and, of course, I cut more of it out on its inner side to bring the cable closer to the lever on the brake shoe.
Look at your picture of the brake plate above your last thread: the stock hole on the later model brake plate was enlarged top and bottom, and on the inner side near where the plare raises up. Unless you have an extra set of brake plates and could take a chance, don't modify them until I check out the modified plate on the 1967 transaxle in my 1957 bus.
For my 1958 bus body on the jeep chassis (which I am returning to a stock bus), I had to mate the jeep emergency brake cable (towards the rear) to the VW cable and Russ at Metric Auto gave me a long crimp and loaned me his big crimping tool, and it worked good. It has to be a long crimp and you crimp it a couple of times by each end.
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[cdennisg]

Thanks. I have extra backing plates around so that isn't an issue. I did enlarge the hole, but I guess I need to lengthen it towards the adjusters to move the cable back farther.

I am currently modifying the early brake cable to see if that works. I just happened to come inside to grab the camera for some in-progress pics. I will post up my findings as long as you do the same.
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[Campy]

If you have extra later model brake plates, it might be good to use my method, rather than cut a set of emergency brake cables; you could always do that as a last resort, later.
Look at the old model backing plate, which I just did, and you will see that the inside of the outside edge of the hole is bent inward so the cable casing gets "cupped" ad it goes through the hole (I used a small adjustable wrench to bend the metal, here, inwardly). Also, you will see the small threaded hole near the bottom outside edge of the hole, which is where you attatch the cable casing stop. You attatch it to the later model brake plate by drilling a hole, and using a bolt and nut to hold it on the plate, and forward as much as you dare so it will be closer to the lever on the shoe, making the cable long enough.
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Don't worry; be happy. (Baba)

[cdennisg]

The hole in the 57 backing plate is almost (vertically) in line with the bearing cover plate. On the later backing plate, there is no way you could move the hole over that far because of the pressings right there. I will get some better pics of the different backing plates.

I had the cable (pre-cutting) mounted into the modified late backing plate and the cable was too short at both ends. I am currently making extensions for the forward end of the cable so it fits in the yoke below the handle.

I am not having much success with this whole project so far.
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[Campy]

I found the set of backing plates that had been on the 1967 transaxle in the 1957 bus: the hole is shaped like a somewhat narrow arch, with the top of the arch facing the outside of the brake plate and its edge bent inwardly, slightly. The hole for the nut and bolt to hold on the cable housing stop was in a regular place. These worked in my 1957 bus but it seems like the threaded end of each cable must have barely reached the piece below the emergency brake lever. I had installed the newly rebuilt transaxle back in around 1986 and there was enough room to have double nuts on each end, though.
Are today's replacement cables a little shorter than they used to be?
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[cdennisg]

I have original cables. They still have the grease Zerks on them. There is no way I could get the nut s on them at the front.


This project has been a bit of a bust for me so far. I have spent many hours trying to get this to work. I am going to modify some late cables with clamp-on ends to get things working for now. I need to have this bus on the road tomorrow for some testing of other systems that remain unproven. I hope to re-visit this issue soon. I will have longer post later tonight explaining my findings with all of this. I have some pics to post also.
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[cdennisg]

OK. I figured out the problem with my cables. But before I get to that, I want to explain what I have done so far.

I started by modifying the late (64-67) backing plate to accommodate the stock early (55-59?) cables. I made the mod, fit the cables and bolted everything up. It appeared that the able would be to short on both ends. I removed a one inch section of the cable housing at the rear (the part between the body and the backing plate) and added a one inch section of spring between the backing plate and the cable end hook (essentially lengthening the stock cable spring) I used a chunk of spring left over from lowering the neighbor's bus back in May, and just wound it on the cable. This put the hook end of the cable fairly close to where it would be with the later cables.

After this I went to the front of the bus and using 6mm barrel nuts and some 6mm bolts with the heads cut off, I made some cable extenders (I believe these are what Cameron mentioned that he uses with his straight axle kits). I could not, for the life of me, get the e-brake to actually lock up the wheel. I would pull as hard as I could possibly muster on the cable and tighten the nut on my extenders, but no go. (or stop, as the case may be) I ended up tightening them up completely to the barrel nuts (almost where the stock cable would have worked) but still no brakes.

Keep in mind, I am now several hours into this, between the actual work and the chasing of parts.

At this point, I decided to just use the stock late backing plates and late cables along with the dreaded clamp on cable extenders. I installed the backing plate and cable ( working on one side at at time) and I ran into the same problem. I cannot get the cable tight enough to actually make the e-brake stop the drum from turning. I had my helper (almost 5 year old daughter) look at the lever on the brake shoe while I pulled the lever up front. "yes Daddy, it's moving. Now can I go back to my swing?"

So, how could it possibly be that pulling the lever at the front, which is actuating the lever on the brakes, which are all installed correctly (double and triple checked) and the e-brake still doesn't work?

The answer turned out to be over sized drums. This whole setup was removed from a running and driving bus. I have driven it, it worked fine. But the rear axle seals were leaking badly enough that the brakes were likely non-functional, or close to it. (oil leak was discovered after tranny removal) On a whim I decide to measure the diameter of the drums I was using and compare that number to another set I had. The other drums had a lot more meat on them, though I did not know the proper specs. I ran the drums over to a buddy's shop to clean them up on his old school Aamco brake lathe. I get home, slide on a drum, readjust the brake shoes and the cable, and BAM! e-brake works perfect!

After all of this, I now wonder if the original mod (Campy's method) would have worked out if I had used the better set of drums. I may try again, as I am not completely satisfied with the cable extender route. Many folks I have asked about them, most of whom are professionals who put their reputation and livelihood on the line with their work everyday, said they would probably work just fine.


So, Campy, can you get us some pics of those backing plates? Your description is good, but pics would be better. I would post some pics of what I have done, but I'm not sure it there is really anything revealing in them.

If anyone has any questions or comments, please post up. Thanks, Corey
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[Campy]

I wish that I could post a picture but, event though I had an advanced education, I still never was able to post a photograph, although I did get two in the gallery, once. I was never able to get a picture down to the right size. A lot of good my education did me.
I measured the hole in the later model backing plate that came off of the 1967 transaxle that had been in my 1957 bus: it is one and one-half inches long, going from the slightly curved up lip on the outside end to about one-eighth of an inch from the raised part of the plate on the inside, and a little over three-fourths of an inch tall.
The center of the little hole where the little bolt goes through with a nut to hold on the cable casing stop from your older model backing plate is five-eighth of an inch below the bottom edge of the main hole, and the outside of the hole is even with the lip on the big hole. You can just use your cable casing stop to figure out where to drill the hole, though (you must have done it, already); I would recommend having it as far forward toward the lever on the brake shoe as possible to give a little extra length to the cable at the front of the underbody.
Post a photograph of your brakeplate so I can comment on it.
Remember that, to have the emergency brake working properly, the brake shoes must be adjusted.
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Don't worry; be happy. (Baba)

[hsosa1]

Im going thru this right now . I have a early 60Dc where u install the cable underneath. and i have a 67 tranny with gear boxes and 67 brakes I brought the 60 cables from wolfsburgh. I noticed that the old emergency brake cables has an extender on one of the brake cables and the other seems to have one too. Im replacing them so Do I need to buy the later cables ? and then use the extenders?
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