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3-Point Rear Seat Belt Install
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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My car seat geek friends found you something even better, well minus the price:
http://corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_double_release_harness_belts/
3pt lap/shoulderS belt that will (easily) work with the fold down bed. Note how the back detaches.

I actually spotted it in a Eurovan from poptophaven.com and asked what it was. Sure enough someone knew! I'm saving the link for when I get my jump seat AND when my oldest is out of car seat/booster...Will put that in the back, on the closet door side.
squbbles wrote:
Congrats! I'm envious.


Thanks, I bought a new lap only belt and new front belts, waiting on a new 3pt for the back before I get them all installed. Will save that old lap belt and see if I ever need it...Are yours older? I can easily fit 2 car seats in the back, but couldn't squeeze a third in there.

And, where did you install it?
Bntbrl wrote:

And for Tam, the extra seat belt in the rear at least for me was simply taking a lapbelt from a parts van and bolting it in with the existing two seatbelts.

I'm going to be running out of room soon as the kids are growing.

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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at the local PaP yesterday and pulled the rear seatbelt posts from an old Volvo 240 wagon. I'm thinking of welding plates at either end and then drilling and bolting them to the van immediately adjacent to the rear seat. Has anyone seen this done on a T3 before? I see someone over in T2 land had the same idea. I'm just not feeling the love for the factory "solution" to this stupid oversight in their design logic, so I feel compelled to think inside the box.

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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never seen it done. My concern would be it's only as strong as the weld job and it's never been tested. So, it may hold and be great. Or it may fail. If there were no other 3pt or 4pt options then I'd say better than nothing.

This looks more fun and different. Would love to see it close up.

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I was at the local PaP yesterday and pulled the rear seatbelt posts from an old Volvo 240 wagon. I'm thinking of welding plates at either end and then drilling and bolting them to the van immediately adjacent to the rear seat. Has anyone seen this done on a T3 before? I see someone over in T2 land had the same idea. I'm just not feeling the love for the factory "solution" to this stupid oversight in their design logic, so I feel compelled to think inside the box.


Even though laws are different place to place, since Britax just came out w/ the Frontier 90, http://www.amazon.com/Britax-Frontier-Booster-Seat...rontier+90
which has harness to 20.5" (torso height of child), there is no reason that people can't harness at least one of their kids until they no longer (legally) need a booster. So, most families will get away with just one lap/shoulder belt back there. It Leaves the 3pt Corbeau as a safe and legal option, with no need for trial, error or welding. http://corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_double_release_harness_belts/ with no risk involved.

But, that's just me and I'm a Child Restraint Safety technician, so a bit more fanatical about safety.

tam
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tam_shops wrote:
My car seat geek friends found you something even better, well minus the price:
http://corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_double_release_harness_belts/
3pt lap/shoulderS belt that will (easily) work with the fold down bed. Note how the back detaches.



The best solution for the driver side rear passenger. Cost the same as the Gowesty solution but no need to cut a slot in the cabinet. However, need a new anchor point for the shoulder belts.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever taken a close look at the seatbelt safety anchors on most cars? In nearly all cases, the anchors consist of a nut tacked to sheetmetal. The seatbelt reel on my Mercedes attaches via a bolt through a hole reinforced with a thin washer tacked to the sheetmetal. My chillins are 10 and 13, so booster seats aren't really in the mix any longer.
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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is expensive, isn't it? So are those Gowesty seat belts, but I'd add over priced to them!LOL I gave up trying to find a suitable substitute that would fit and went w/ gowesty ones. I'm still waiting on a sale to get the gowesty traditional 3pt belt for the passenger side back and one for the jump seat. Though, may go w/ one of the new style 3pt ones. It's going to annoy the heck out of me that they don't all match! d'oh!

I'm planning on attaching the anchor point for the back of that shoulder belt to my current tether anchor. I can connect you w/ a firefighter and CPST in Oregon that can help you decide where the most suitable place to put it is and/or install it...Mine was done by my regular guy and she was fine (but not thrilled with it), so I'll get out to see her for a check by the end of the summer...And, of course post pictures.
stevey88 wrote:
The best solution for the driver side rear passenger. Cost the same as the Gowesty solution but no need to cut a slot in the cabinet. However, need a new anchor point for the shoulder belts.



Yep, you're probably hooped for fitting the 13yo even in a booster, but unless unusually tall, the 10yo should certainly still fit in booster seat...You could get a jump seat and put one of the children there, rear facing is safer anyway. Wink

Have you put head rests in already? I am supposed to be picking up some free black head rests and the little plastic things tomorrow morning. Yeah! I don't need them yet, but can't beat free for the gas to get them!

I haven't been under a car since my dad retired and wasn't into car seat safety back then...I have looked at how the tether anchors (TAs) are installed, sounds about the same as you're describing. It causes great debate about retrofitting (adding them) b/c not all vehicles (Vanagons) have approved places to install them. And, is cause for great debate about what American weight limits. In Canada, no debate, they are the law and always required. So, it's interesting, that this debate has never come up for seat belts, especially for plus sized people, if they're not as thick as I'd have expected...

Waiting on more pictures if you get this done, always curious...
Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Have you ever taken a close look at the seatbelt safety anchors on most cars? In nearly all cases, the anchors consist of a nut tacked to sheetmetal. The seatbelt reel on my Mercedes attaches via a bolt through a hole reinforced with a thin washer tacked to the sheetmetal. My chillins are 10 and 13, so booster seats aren't really in the mix any longer.


tam
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Have you put head rests in already? I am supposed to be picking up some free black head rests and the little plastic things tomorrow morning. Yeah! I don't need them yet, but can't beat free for the gas to get them!


Yes.

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Using the "tube welded to a plate" type I bought from Madspaniard.
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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice, and they match too. Did you decide which seat belts to use? I remember reading he'd had some done. Was confused as to if he'd decided not to use them and went OEM or if he was making more. Recall the liability concern he had. My answer to that is, "I didn't do it, it was like that when I got it". Given it's 26yo, good luck finding the PO that did it. Wink

I hope to be picking my head rests up Sunday. They'll be black, so not as pretty. Might swap them for my front seat ones as at least there is black piping on the seat. But, FREE. They're coming off a transporter seat...Unless the transporter seat will pop on in place of my current seat. That'd be sweet and I could do it myself! Doubt it, that'd be too easy.

tam
stevey88 wrote:
Yes.

Using the "tube welded to a plate" type I bought from Madspaniard.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tam_shops wrote:
My car seat geek friends found you something even better, well minus the price:
http://corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_double_release_harness_belts/
3pt lap/shoulderS belt that will (easily) work with the fold down bed. Note how the back detaches.


I like this option too, I think I will be looking at this one at a later date. Right now just getting ready to install the Gowesty 3-point in the rear, trying to get out for our first family camping trip this long weekend.

Unfortunately since my syncro was originally a panel van I have to install all the anchor points for the seat belts and rear bench. What a pain.

Luckily I scored a full width folding bed with headrests! Cut the anchors out of the donor van and installed them into mine. Fortunately the anchor locations are all set up to take the plates, they even have nice little notches to line up the location and holes.
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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool and enjoy! Sure you'll be able to sell those 3pt belts when you're done with them and ready to move on...

Total score to find a bench w/ head rests and the anchors you need! Some of these projects add up quickly.

Don't forget that the regular 3pt gowesty belt can be used for a rear facing, forward facing car seat or a booster seat. But, the new style 3pt belt (that really acts more like a 4pt belt), is good for an older child that is no longer in a car seat of any kind. The older the better, especially w/ out head rests...

tam
Yukon Syncro wrote:


I like this option too, I think I will be looking at this one at a later date. Right now just getting ready to install the Gowesty 3-point in the rear, trying to get out for our first family camping trip this long weekend.

Unfortunately since my syncro was originally a panel van I have to install all the anchor points for the seat belts and rear bench. What a pain.

Luckily I scored a full width folding bed with headrests! Cut the anchors out of the donor van and installed them into mine. Fortunately the anchor locations are all set up to take the plates, they even have nice little notches to line up the location and holes.

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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys never seize to amaze and impress me! I'm finally replacing my back bench seat belts and still deciding what I'll do in the next year or so when my 4yo outgrows his Frontier (my 7yo still fits in one and will for the next year or so) and discovered the 86y. So, of course I came here to tell you all about it and what do I find?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3...stallation

You already know all about it! LOL I'm now discussing it w/ my tech friends to find out which they think is safer that modified 3pt belt I was planning on OR this 86y. Of course, I also have to think about Canadian approval, but it's a bit of a catch 22. That modified 3pt belt wouldn't (I suspect) be approved to use w/ a booster, but no specific (that I've ever heard of) regulations to say i can not use it here. The 86y is approved w/ boosters, but probably not approved to use here. LOL And, best of all, of course that 27yo lap belt both legal and approved to use here, but not safe!

tam
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tam_shops wrote:
My car seat geek friends found you something even better, well minus the price:
http://corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_double_release_harness_belts/
3pt lap/shoulderS belt that will (easily) work with the fold down bed. Note how the back detaches.

I actually spotted it in a Eurovan from poptophaven.com and asked what it was. Sure enough someone knew! I'm saving the link for when I get my jump seat AND when my oldest is out of car seat/booster...Will put that in the back, on the closet door side.



Has anybody ever installed one of the 3-point or 5-point Corbeau harness in the rear bench of a Westy (or similar)? If so, I'd love to see some pictures and/or see any review on them.

I have currently installed the GoWesty 3-point retractable seat belts, but I don't like how they intrude with the use of the rear cabinet. Ideally, I would like to install harnesses that can support people up to 180 lbs or so each that can reuse some of the existing lap belts mounting points plus some extra tether points.
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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is this thread.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=371918&highlight=86y

Though, someone pointed out that the back of our bench is not reinforced, it could cause problems in a crash. I'm not *there* yet and have yet to research enough to make an informed decision...
pnwkayaker wrote:

Has anybody ever installed one of the 3-point or 5-point Corbeau harness in the rear bench of a Westy (or similar)? If so, I'd love to see some pictures and/or see any review on them.

I have currently installed the GoWesty 3-point retractable seat belts, but I don't like how they intrude with the use of the rear cabinet. Ideally, I would like to install harnesses that can support people up to 180 lbs or so each that can reuse some of the existing lap belts mounting points plus some extra tether points.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 3pt rear belt is in and installed. Yeah, b/c 28yo belts are too old and the fabric/thread is starting to get questionable safety wise....BUT, frig & PITA, the gowesty rear belt does not have ALR (automatic locking re-tractor).
http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=3218&category_id=&category_parent_id=

Now, I have to use a locking clip to lock the belt for my son's car seat (not booster). Some seats come with them. Some companies will send you one for free. And, that motor company that starts w/ F and ends in a D will give you one if you ask nicely, though sometimes you have to go and order it and then go back and get it...
http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Seat-Belt-Locking-Clip/dp/B004XJ0EF0
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And, here's what happens if you put your locking clip on wrong:

Link

The error/problem is not that the locking clip flips off in the crash, they all do that. The problem is the seat goes flying forward after impact b/c the clip came off too soon, now that IS a problem. The more the seat moves in a crash, the more damage to the occupant.

How to use a locking clip for those that need one:

Link

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I was at the local PaP yesterday and pulled the rear seatbelt posts from an old Volvo 240 wagon. I'm thinking of welding plates at either end and then drilling and bolting them to the van immediately adjacent to the rear seat. Has anyone seen this done on a T3 before? I see someone over in T2 land had the same idea. I'm just not feeling the love for the factory "solution" to this stupid oversight in their design logic, so I feel compelled to think inside the box.


interesting. i'm trying to parse out a solution for this now (without a bentley) and had envisioned something like this. is there a "factory" fix? i've read this whole thred and there was little mention of it, so feel free to point me in the direction of a better thred on it, but i am actually about to sell a dying 240 and could pull these posts before i do. did you try this solution yet? got a link to some pictures of the bolting on this bus mod?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't fabricated this mod yet, as I'm waiting until I have to pull the side panels. I think the bottom plate should be pretty straight forward, but I'm unclear how to attach up at the top without mucking up the headliner. This might be easier to do on a camper van
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have a picture of the belt going through the cabinet from inside the closet door?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about non-retractable 3 point belts. Seems simpler. And frankly, my kids screw around with the retractor half the time.

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/3pt-non-retractable-seat-belts-bnch-help.html
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retractors are annoying (and big, especially in your bed space), but they serve an important purpose during deceleration, after the crash. Especially if the belt has a pretensioner. I'm not sure if the GoWesty belts have a pretensioner, or not. I do know they have a *very* touchy retractor though.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/seatbelt3.htm

tam
atomatom wrote:
What about non-retractable 3 point belts. Seems simpler. And frankly, my kids screw around with the retractor half the time.

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/3pt-non-retractable-seat-belts-bnch-help.html

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tam - was hoping you were about. I'm trying to figure this puzzle as well - my girls are 4 & 7. What did you end up doing? I know you mentioned the britax parkway booster. That plus the gowesty belt plus the belt lock?

I wondered why not use a four point belt, like below, and mount the retractor to the rear bolt above the door http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4246 - I saw the instructions for similar belts saying to mount it 0-10o below the shoulder - so presumably above is bad news (I guess if you roll over?) http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/2x2-crow-utv-4pt-y.html

http://corbeau.com/product_images/2-inch_retractable_harness_belts/standard/2.inch-43301-L.jpg
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