3-Point Rear Seat Belt Install

[tam_shops]

My 5yo and 8yo are both still harnessed in their Britax Frontier. We have an older version of this seat: http://www.snugglebugz.ca/frontier-ct.html It has harness to 65lb (won't happen w/ my skinny boys) and 20.5" seated height (butt to shoulder). My 8yo is short and has one more summer in that seat. Next summer, he will use that same seat as a booster (it has a more solid back and until I have head rests in, I wouldn't be thrilled w/ any other seat there). The Britax Parkway is allowed as is the Graco TurboBooster--both high back models. Other models do not allow it. He will sit on the passenger side.

The problem will start when my 5yo outgrows the Frontier! Then, I have a few options 1 move my then 9+YO into the jump seat w/ lap/shoulder belt. Legal, but only safe if he is tall enough. Put him in a booster in jump seat, not technically allowed, or put my dh in jump seat and him in the front passenger seat. Safe and legal, but dh is a good navigator. LOL OR put him in a lap only belt in the driver side back, legal not safe. OR add a 4-5pt belt there, I have a TA there already. Finally, use the 86Y I have, not legal unless I get a note from my doctor, but safe. Is that enough choices?

I do *not* like the GoWesty TA:
http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=4246

Used to like the CT one, but have heard a few complaints about it shearing the metal when installed as per instructions. That's why I do not like the GW TA, it does not have a big enough washer behind it.

I still like the EZ TA:
http://ezonpro.com/e-z-on-accessories/

I like the Ford TA. F7CZ-74613D74-AA. The Richmond Auto mall knows how to get them.

I doubt the belt will reach the GW TA. I think it's too far away.
http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/2x2-crow-utv-4pt-y.html

I do like the 3-4pt seat belt option, but what are you going to do with that participial one when you fold the bed down? It looks like it bolts to the floor. The 86Y attaches to a seat belt and a TA and is removed when not using. http://ezonpro.com/e-z-on-86y-universal-harness/ Again, only legal here w/ a note from a doctor.

The Corbeau is detachable:
http://corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_double_release_harness_belts/ No idea on the legalities of this in Canada. I know VW can't order lap only belts across the border.

[morymob]

My 3pt rear mounted belts in my 86 sync r tht front belts from a New Beetle, minus the chrome bar, retractor also needs belt verticle so thst worked out ok

[atomatom]

Thanks morymob - good to hear you get newer VW parts that fit.

Tam - I hear you about the seatbacks. We have a Sunshine Kids Radian65 - which fits the our 5 year old and that seems solid - you can probably tell me if not. The 7 year old is in the booster in the front seat, and poor mom is in the back - eager to fix the seating problem.

In the city I had been driving around with the two girls rear-facing, sitting above the engine. They loved that - but I guess that is probably illegal as well - and yes, fuel lines/etc (those are done now). It is a shame, because driving with them rear facing like that we could fit an extra row of people without the middle seat - and they were quiet like kids are when parents aren't in the room.

It is crazy that the lap belt only is legal, but the other belts aren't. That is probably where I'd cross the line - presuming you've been diligent and installed them correctly. What is the condition required by your doctor - has prior injuries caused by lapbelt?

[tam_shops]

LOVE the Radian as a seat, good to know it fits. My 5yo was about to outgrow it, so when it got crashed (I live in Richmond), I went for a frontier for him. The Frontier is a few inches taller, so will last a few years longer. The rule is ~1" torso growth per year.

7yo in a booster in the front is legal and safe. Mom in the back with no head rest is *not* safe, but legal. Lap belts are no longer legal in new vehicles, as of 2015 (I think that's when it starts), as they were deemed so unsafe.
http://www.vwbusshop.de/epages/GuenzlClassicParts....255070211A

Kids rear facing (RF) in the cargo area, especially with out a seat belt, not safe or legal. While you could debate the physics of it, especially with out a head rest, it's never been tested and even with a seat belt, you could get a stack of fines if caught. Now, there are some funny little jump type seats designed for a cargo area, but you couldn't secure it in the Vanagon (engine lid) and at best they'd be questionably safe.

Condition requiring permission from doctor (no idea if a GP could do it), would be "child unable to sit in *regular* belt for prolonged period of time." I'm golden on that one, my doctor called my youngest son the most hyper active child she had ever seen in her practice in her entire life. The best part, it's my older one that is actually the hyper one, my youngest just has a lot of anxiety and was there for his Kindergarten shots! Either way, can't hurt to try.

I'm not sure if those 4-5pt seat belts are legal here or not. I'm not even sure the GoWesty 3pt belts I imported are legal or not (technically, they may need some sort of CSA on them). What I do know is it's unlikely anyone would know or notice and I most certainly did not mention it at the border when I brought them through.

That new belt should fit, but how are you going to use the bed if you buy/use that?

Also, it requires a TA, if you have a Syncro it's either difficult or impossible (not clear on which) to add 2 TAs, something about the gas tank position (I think).

tam

[atomatom]

After a bunch of humming and hawing, I'm going to attempt to install these - which are $130 for a pair this month. It looks like I may have to talk to my metal working buddy about the "T" bracket the retractor mounts too.

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C45-RBT-3PTEU-BLK-KT

And then... headrests. My wife is very keen to ditch the car seats from our camping excursions. I've seen some of the posts on retrofitting head-rests to the bench. The fact it is 30 year old plywood does not make me feel great, but I'll see what I can do to fortify it. I want to take out the bench and check all the fasteners on it anyway.

The original vanagon head rests are pretty ugly, so I'll probably go hunting at a scrap yard, unless someone has a better lead.
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[geo_tonz]

[atomatom]

Thanks geo_tonz - but that is a bit of a drive.

I found this image pretty useful. In particular, note part #13 that keeps the the shoulder strap in place, and is attached the headrest.

http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=5191647&ukey_assembly=745039

So, the head rest is going to be critical, else will have to use a hard back booster.

Now to figure out the T bracket (parts #119-114-191 and #119-114-190 - related link here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=438779 ).
_________________
84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[atomatom]

Some more T bracket images, via german ebay. Might even find a rear Sicherheitsgurt for yourself on there: http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m57...;_from=R40

_________________
84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada.

[dixoncj]

Does anybody have a link to - or a set of actual GoWesty cabinet side full Westy measurements they can post up? I went to install my rear shoulder belt today on the rear driver's side of our 91 and realized I don't have the measurement sheet - and they do not appear to be posted anywhere on the Interwebs that I can see. I can't figure out why the F Gowesty doesn't just post up a video of the proper installation - or at least a PDF of the install instructions. They did a vid like that for front installation.

[Zeitgeist 13]

Coincidentally, just two weeks ago I installed GW 3pt belts on a '91 Weekender. The supplied template for the cabinet was off by about .25", and appears to have been originally set up for a different reel design. They suggest that the cutout can be managed with a razor knife, but that's ludicrous. I had to use a Dremel with a vertical cutoff drill. The supplied reel sits up about .25" higher than their template indicates, so there was lots of fiddling about with a mini drum sander.

I wish I still had that template to share, but it was recycled.

[Volksaholic]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Sorry, I really should've taken pics, but it wasn't my own van. To be clear, I did the install on a Westfalia Multivan Weekender (poptop + small cabinet on the LR side). The template provided by GW was clearly for a reel with a different housing profile. It bolted directly to the van body, rather than to any kind of intermediary bracket. I did have to dink around with the lower fixed bracket, before I settled on the final configuration.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Volksaholic]

Well... thanks anyway. I'm going to try flipping the reels between the two sides. The more I think about it, the more that seems like the problem even though I installed them with the reels on the brackets the way the seller shipped them after pulling them from his van.

I'm also curious how the rear panel cutout works out. I used the Bentley measurements for the feed from the reel to the upper feed, and if the belt is pulled toward the bench seat it appears that the feed through the plastic grommet is about centered. In other words, I don't think I'm going to have the problem some have had with the position of that lower panel cutout.

pd
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

[Volksaholic]

To share my experience: The reels are left and right handed, as are the brackets. While I liked the way the seat belts laid out when swapping the reels, the slight angle difference activates the lock on the reel and you can't pull the belt out. I put them back and think I figured out where I was getting the twist.

On a humorous side note: if you want to inspect the workings of the seat belt mechanism, don't take the flat side off the reel. I carefully removed that side of the mechanism and still ended up with the rewind spring exploding all over the bench. It took quite awhile to carefully untangle the spring and respool it. Quite comical... if you're not the one rewinding your seatbelt! The other side has the lock mechanism, and I confirmed that the weight that activates the lock if the reel is off balance is angled to match the left or right side bracket, and it doesn't take much movement off-axis to lock the belt.
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

[Volksaholic]

Since I've completed this installation and was having a hard time finding images of the factory installation for my van, I thought I'd share my solution. On the side panels I used the location and dimensions spec'd in the Bentley manual. I had forgotten about this thread prior to cutting those panels, so I didn't shift the cut-outs aft, but mine seem to be about right where they should be. The belt touches the back of the trim in the side panel when there's no tension on the belt, but when it's pulled and the upper anchor rotates forward, the feed from the reel shifts forward enough to clear the trim.

I wasn't totally clear about how big the cut-outs were according to the Bentley instructions. They're giving dimensions for a 3 dimensional panel on a flat drawing. It seemed excessive to me. I finally found some images on some non-TheSamba sites of these factory/Bentley cuts and didn't like look. The slots I cut are about the same size & position as the Bentley cuts at the top, but narrow down where the belt feeds from the reel at the bottom. I have decent clearance and the belts operate smoothly.

I made the cuts by making an MDF template and cutting with a Dremel. The template is oversized to allow an optional router base attachment to run against the template, and I did several test cuts on scraps of MDF before actually cutting up my van. I'm pleased with the end result.

In the image below, you can see that the lower end of the belt has the factory trim piece that I took off the stock lap belt. This was not included in the belts I purchased. It took quite a bit of work and dish soap to coax the lower folded and stitched section of belt through the narrow slot, and I was pretty sure I was going to break the trim. Working slowly, though, I was able to squeeze it through and it made for a clean looking installation.

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1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251

[Neptuno]

[jfu057]

[Neptuno]

[WestyKlaus]

The current Go Westy kit surface mounts to the D pillar behind the window. No bracket needed. There is a factory plastic bolt in the factory threaded insert that the Go Westy reel anchors to. I think the old version required the T-Bracket that is discussed prior in this thread.
I just did my driver's side through the Westfalia Cabinet last weekend. I had installed the passenger's side last summer. The kit reel has changed and now your stock receiver works.
If you have a westy and do the driver's side, be sure you have a vibrating multi-tool like this one from Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-oscillating-multi-tool-61219.html
It makes cutting the cabinet easy after you drill 3/4" top and bottom holes for the belt to pass through.

[Neptuno]