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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2332 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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hdenter wrote: |
Hey Andy,
What kind of sending unit for water pressure gauge- mechanical or electric? There is a bad glare in your picture, what's the pressure range of the gauge? Do you have a link to it?
Hans |
The Water Pressure gauge is strictly mechanical. I have a 3/16" ID nylon pipe from the expansion tank to the lower dash. Seems I do have it inside a larger pipe under the vehicle for protection.
Seems the pressure range is 0 thru 15 PSI. I've never seen the pressure over 9 PSI. And, interestingly, with the engine at idle, when I rev it, the pressure will drop as much as 2 PSI for an instant. The reason for the pressure drop is that the Water Pump pulls strong on the return hose from the expansion tank... This tells me my Water Pump is working just fine.
EDIT: No link to the cooling system pressure gauge. I did searches after searches and finally found this gauge on eBay ... 100% mechanical. I had to disassemble it to add backing lighting.
Sorry about the glare........ that is an old pic from about 2015 or ealier. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2754 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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Thanks Andy! Any particular reason you why you ran a line up from the engine compartment and didn't just tap in at the radiator or the heater supply pipes under the dash? I would imagine that the pressure should be fairly consistent throughout the system. Or did you know ahead of time that the water pump would show that effect at the expansion tank?
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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izzydog Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 665
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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If you've got OBDII on board, your iPad can be your new gauge cluster.
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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Your turbo appears to be sucking boost out of the engine. It's obviously possessed _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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that's a bit of a blind spot creator.
I have a old cell phone running Torque (free/$5) via Blue tooth and a $8 ELM type adapter
can set up alerts and such. but I just like to monitor the vitals as the ECM sees them. |
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vwhammer Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: Boulder CO.
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izzydog Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 665
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
that's a bit of a blind spot creator. |
That's a weird angle - it really doesn't block much windshield. I need to trim the holder down an inch or so - it's a little tall for the iPad. |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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Thanks for all the details, that's helpful and hopefully Speedhut has some answers to your notes. That GPS speedometer drop would be a weird thing to experience for the first few times.
I'm hoping the fuel gauge would work find but I think I'm willing to work with it for all the added benefits. I have to look into what "decade box" is but I'm sure I can figure it out. I'm definitely leaning toward your style the more I think about it. The gauges would be closer, more readable, using their built-in lighting (I don't like the original one, especially with you put an LED, I get a dark shadow down half of the gauge). I'm also a big fan of simplifying the mounting (minus having to create the ABS panel) and making a little more space behind the cluster. I'm always popping that cover off to tinker with things behind there. More space = more better!
Here's our setup right now: we have a syncro with a 94' Subaru EJ22 in it, so anything OBDII just isn't an easy option. I don't know that I like the big iPad setups anyway. Our speakers were shot, so in the meantime I bought a 2-1/16" single din gauge holder and purchased the following:
- Oil temperature gauge (sender is located on top of the engine, driver side, near transaxle)
- Oil pressure gauge (sender is located on top of the engine, driver side, near belts on a T adapter with the OE pressure sender)
- Water temperature gauge (sender is located on the end of the reverse coolant manifold, near belts)
- Trans oil temperature gauge (sender is located right at oil pickup but outside the transaxle, inline just before the oil pump)
The transaxle oil temperature is above the instrument cluster, the three others are where the radio usually sits. Our stock water temperature gauge isn't displaying properly (I still need to find the right resistor to modify the signal from the Subaru engine to the VW gauge). The Speedhut gauge setup would nicely free-up our radio opening again (I know there are alternatives for gauge placement), I would just have to figure out where to put the 2 additional oil temp gauges (engine and trans).
Our current setup is pretty good, the MaxTow gauges we have are nice, no question about it. They are readable and aren't as glowy or hazy as they appear in the photos below. Having them in the radio spot is convenient but not the angle isn't ideal. I can't read the digital number of water temp because of the needle for example, and I can't see where the needle points exactly because it's hidden in the upper left corner of the gauge from my vantage point. Bringing these gauges right in front of me would be an amazing upgrade as I find that I'm always looking down toward the radio to read them. I had originally purchased a slightly angled 3 gauge single din holder but the angle made it impossible to fit the deep-ish MaxTow gauges.
By the way, just for the sake of numbers, here are some typical readings we get in 50 to 70 degree weather:
- 65mph on flat: engine oil 220deg, water 180deg, oil pressure ~40psi, trans oil 120deg
- 50/60mph slight uphill: engine oil up to 242deg, water 190deg, oil pressure (more rpm related), trans oil 135deg
- in town: engine oil 210deg, water 180deg to 200deg (when stopped and oil temp comes down), oil pressure 10 to 20psi idle, almost 95psi when cold engine, trans oil from 90 to 110deg.
valvecovergasket wrote: |
followup to this - no reflections at night, and i really like the backlighting and needle lighting of the speedhuts..
the only reflections i get a bit of are the ashtray gauges, but its minimal.
i bought the same ones as kourt - the 4"
the actual hole saw size i used to cut those panels was a bit smaller as i recall 3-7/8? so the gauge is actually ~4" as measured at the bezels.
im really happy with my setup and especially like the backlighting of the numbers and the needle lighting. i find it looks a bit more modern.
as i recall kourts thread he was looking for a much more original setup and preferred the face lighting as a result but ill let him chime in...
my interest in mounting them toward the front was just because i didnt want to make any extra hardware or brackets and clamp the gauges (kourt had a really clever way of doing this), and wanted initially to mount them in the same location as kourt (or thereabouts) but use the speedhut mounting ring and all that.
unfortunately the cluster tapers way too much to allow for that, so i pushed it as far forward as i could to make it look not too out of place and gave me enough room to mount the gauges with the bezels and mounting rings they came with.
fuel gauge can be an issue below around 1/4 tank. the 2wd tank likely exagerates this as the sender is in one corner of the tank.
others ive seen also mentioned that their low fuel light comes on and off as a result, but mine doesnt...
i dont know if this is a software difference as some of those threads were a few years old, or if they turned their light on via settings and i neglected to when i set mine up.
all i did to the gauges when they came out of the box was test the filtering, calibrate with a decade box, and then plug them in.
im finding the oil pressure gauge to perhaps be a bit under damped as well, for what thats worth...
i reached out to speedhut this morning to see if this was something they could fix with reprogramming (this should be a simple filter constant calibration on their end...) but we'll see.
im not hacking together aftermarket level senders or dropping the tank again, as they should be more than capable of compensating for filter constant changes.
the gps speedo is also good, but not perfect and i think suffers from a similar filtering issue as the rest of their gauges (dropouts can cause a hard plummet to 0, proper software would have accommodated for a dropout to not be treated with the same filtering as a true value).
just something to be aware of. |
_________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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valvecovergasket wrote: |
fuel gauge can be an issue below around 1/4 tank. the 2wd tank likely exagerates this as the sender is in one corner of the tank.
others ive seen also mentioned that their low fuel light comes on and off as a result, but mine doesnt...
i dont know if this is a software difference as some of those threads were a few years old, or if they turned their light on via settings and i neglected to when i set mine up.
all i did to the gauges when they came out of the box was test the filtering, calibrate with a decade box, and then plug them in.
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a quick update on this - i did get a reply back from speedhut this morning.
sounds like they had previously had much more filtering on the level but reduced it to accommodate folks that wanted to see the level change while refueling (a really strange design decision...).
due to many recent complaints theyre going back to earlier heavy filtering settings, and they sent me a return label to send the gauge back to get reprogrammed.
will come back with an update after ive had a chance to run the tank out on the new settings in a few weeks hopefully.
great customer service though! _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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Ha! Very cool, thanks for the updates!
valvecovergasket wrote: |
a quick update on this - i did get a reply back from speedhut this morning.
sounds like they had previously had much more filtering on the level but reduced it to accommodate folks that wanted to see the level change while refueling (a really strange design decision...).
due to many recent complaints theyre going back to earlier heavy filtering settings, and they sent me a return label to send the gauge back to get reprogrammed.
will come back with an update after ive had a chance to run the tank out on the new settings in a few weeks hopefully.
great customer service though! |
_________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2332 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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hdenter wrote: |
Thanks Andy! Any particular reason you why you ran a line up from the engine compartment and didn't just tap in at the radiator or the heater supply pipes under the dash? I would imagine that the pressure should be fairly consistent throughout the system. Or did you know ahead of time that the water pump would show that effect at the expansion tank?
Hans |
Well, at the time, I was running wires to the front to the Jetta Cluster when I was doing the conversion to a TDI Engine. So, I suppose my mind set was "do everything" from the back. However, if the pressure source is from a hose, then, there would be coolant to the gauge. Thus, if there was a failure in the gauge pipe, it would spew out coolant ... no good.
TRIVA: In July, 2014, on the first day of a 31 day road trip to Alaska and return pulling a popup camper, I noticed the coolant pressure was on 0. Long story short, the hose on the back of the gauge had pulled loose. But, more interesting, I never bothered to fix the issue until I got home a month later and more than 12k miles. I monitored engine temp with the Oil Temp gauge, Scan Gauge and the temp gauge in the cluster........ never an indication of over heating.
So, tapping the coolant expansion tank at or near the top where there is no coolant seems to be the best place when using a mechanical gauge set-up.
EDIT: As for how the Water Pump affected pressure was a bonus. I only noticed the effect months after putting the conversion to use.
Thoughts? _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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valvecovergasket Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018 Posts: 1492 Location: pnw
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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T3TRIS wrote: |
Ha! Very cool, thanks for the updates!
valvecovergasket wrote: |
a quick update on this - i did get a reply back from speedhut this morning.
sounds like they had previously had much more filtering on the level but reduced it to accommodate folks that wanted to see the level change while refueling (a really strange design decision...).
due to many recent complaints theyre going back to earlier heavy filtering settings, and they sent me a return label to send the gauge back to get reprogrammed.
will come back with an update after ive had a chance to run the tank out on the new settings in a few weeks hopefully.
great customer service though! |
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coming back around to this as i reinstalled the updated gauge and have been driving a bit over the weekend...
previous filter constant based on my bench testing was ~55 seconds.
new, post reprogramming, filter constant is right around 10 minutes.
its obviously much much less prone to any noise now
they were really prompt about getting it programmed and back in the mail though.
no complaints! _________________ MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com
gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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valvecovergasket wrote: |
coming back around to this as i reinstalled the updated gauge and have been driving a bit over the weekend...
previous filter constant based on my bench testing was ~55 seconds.
new, post reprogramming, filter constant is right around 10 minutes.
its obviously much much less prone to any noise now
they were really prompt about getting it programmed and back in the mail though.
no complaints! |
That’s awesome! Thanks for keeping us updated on this. I realize I’m going to have to wait a little longer before pulling the trigger on this. I found a spare cluster to prep though! _________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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revolution337 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2009 Posts: 372 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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Just finished up my gauge install today, using the ashtray gauge pod available from T3 Technique (I believe Brickwerks makes them and Chris imports/sells them stateside)
http://t3technique.com/electrical/dual-gauge-pod.html
With my 1.8t engine conversion, I chose to use an oil pressure and boost/vacuum gauge. All other major engine parameters are able to be monitored via my OBDII Ultragauge.
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Da TOW'D Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2005 Posts: 1321 Location: Bella Coma Canada
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Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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can't get much better than 21 in hg
looking good _________________ '57 type 1 Blackberry
'58 SC Ruf
'62 type 3 Notch
'92 Eurovan Willy DD
and NUTS |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2561 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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is that the navigation computer from Apollo 13? _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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4Gears4Tires Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018 Posts: 3051 Location: MD
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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Whatever it is, they're ready for Vanagon Flight School (mascot - the Dodo). _________________ '87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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mtnhome Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 500 Location: Summit County, CO
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Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Gauges - Post Pics! |
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I pulled these VDO gauges from an 80's VW(I think Rabbit or Cabrio) and want to use them with my Subaru conversion. I like that they are metric and vintage like the Westy.
I'm thinking this will be a good place for the temp sender since it will fit under the coolant manifold. This is on the cylinder 2/4 side of the engine. It's just sitting in the plug that's there now. This should should show the temperature of the oil just before it goes to the main bearings. Just noticed that this really shows the heavy blasting RMW does to their reversed manifolds!
I have a couple of these coming that I can use in this location and also under the alternator for the pressure sender.
I haven't decided how I'm going to mount the gauges yet.
Feedback is welcome! _________________ '84 Westy, '93 Subaru ej22 and Subarugears 5speed
Build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763098&highlight= |
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rmcd Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010 Posts: 1349 Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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