| Author |
Message |
prom8n
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2005
Posts: 60
Location: Pinckney, Michigan
|
 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: Bay-Bus Booster fan = More heat! |
 |
|
Passing this little project along: My son drives his '75 standard bay through Michigan's winters, and nearly froze last year. Heater boxes are good, flaps work, booster fan in the back works, just no air movement/heat at the dash ducts.
I added a ducted "ambulance" fan to the heat tube just upstream from the floor heat diverter, and wired it to a two-speed switch on the dash. This helps "pull" the heat from way back, and "push" it further along in the tube. With everything blasting, you can actually feel a good draft of air at the defroster ducts, and once the engine gets warmed up, you have heat. Feels pretty good in September, we'll see what it's like in January. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
steponmebbbboom
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004
Posts: 6390
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Bay-Bus Booster fan = More heat! |
|
|
| prom8n wrote: |
| Passing this little project along: My son drives his '75 standard bay through Michigan's winters, and nearly froze last year. |
I wonder how the bus feels about that? Did you at least take it to Ziebart or the corner garage to get it oilsprayed? If you didnt, your son wont have too many winters left to freeze in that bus because it will be in the Junkyard.
| Quote: |
| I added a ducted "ambulance" fan to the heat tube just upstream from the floor heat diverter, and wired it to a two-speed switch on the dash. This helps "pull" the heat from way back, |
and along with that heat, exhaust fumes. Because of that, I feel this modification is ill-advised. The reason the original booster fan wasnt configured in this way is because any vacuum created in the heater boxes will suck any exhaust leak into the heating air stream whereas if the entire duct from stern to stem has positive pressure, exhaust gas will be blown out. If the entire heating system is repaired properly in its original configuration, it will be extremely hot. It takes a little effort and knowledge, but it is worth it. I will leave the specific advice to other members, but will again underscore the potential danger an upstram booster fan poses. You do not want carbon monoxide in the cabin. Bundle up or fix it properly. Putting it in the garage for the winter and leaving the salt for your mileage whore works too!
Last edited by steponmebbbboom on Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrBreeze
Samba Hitman
Joined: October 06, 2002
Posts: 5540
Location: Lawn Guyland, Noo Yawk
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've had a 3" bilge fan in the front heater tube for years and never had a problem. It's a HUGE help. But, to add to what Step said, PLEASE be sure your system is in PERFECT shape!
_________________
-=Rob
WTB: Bay Shore or Queensboro VW Frames
HBB 1984-2009
RW 1943-2011
ER 1964-2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So long as there is positive pressure from the engine to the fan you will not suck in exhaust fumes. Maybe this is a problem, maybe not, has someone actually had a problem with this? I have a 4" Rule inline blower in mine and have never noticed fumes, not at least since I replace the gasket on the rear engine door.
One thing to always look for is mouse nest material in the duct work. Slipping one of those grabber type tools into the ducts and pulling out all the junk can make a big difference in air flow.
By the way what is an ambulance fan? How does it differ from a bilge blower? Is yours plastic or metal? What brand is it and who was your source. My Rule blows fine but is very noisy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrBreeze
Samba Hitman
Joined: October 06, 2002
Posts: 5540
Location: Lawn Guyland, Noo Yawk
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| By the way what is an ambulance fan? How does it differ from a bilge blower? Is yours plastic or metal? What brand is it and who was your source. My Rule blows fine but is very noisy. |
Ambulance fans were rare accessories that were used to push cool air into the cab.
_________________
-=Rob
WTB: Bay Shore or Queensboro VW Frames
HBB 1984-2009
RW 1943-2011
ER 1964-2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DeathBus
WILD MAN!
Joined: February 29, 2004
Posts: 4384
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have the booster fan up front as well in all my Bays, my heater systems are in good shape and I can defrost my windshields in no time at all.
_________________
65 Bus, 72 Bus, 63 bus, 98 Golf, 92 Cabrio, 71 Fasty
In the shop a 62 Bus and a 79 bus |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NASkeet
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 2958
Location: South Benfleet, Essex, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: Ambulance fans |
|
|
| MrBreeze wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| By the way what is an ambulance fan? How does it differ from a bilge blower? Is yours plastic or metal? What brand is it and who was your source. My Rule blows fine but is very noisy. |
Ambulance fans were rare accessories that were used to push cool air into the cab.
|
1968~79 VW Type 2, front-cab, intra-duct, ventilation booster fans (aka Ambulance Fans, in the USA), might be rare in the USA and UK, but they seem to be relatively common in other parts of the World, such as Australia and possibly South Africa. The first set of these that I bought second-hand, were said to have originated from a German specification, late-model, 1968~79 VW Type 2, double-cab pickup, but I don't know the origin of the second set, which I later acquired.
Regards.
Nigel A. Skeet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jered
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2006
Posts: 436
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
I ran mine all winter in Anchorage Alaska... think the coldest was -20 F...
I had enough heat to keep the windows clean from frost...
The basic logic of how the heating works... is no matter how cold it gets... your going to raise the interior temp the same %..
IE: if it's 40 outside... you can get your interior comfortable to say 60+/-
but if it's -20... even an added 20 degrees of heat is still just damn cold...
So layer up and plan on a cold ride... the good thing with added air... you keep the window clear and clean... for a safe ride...
I've heard of people putting plastic sheets up behind the drivers seat to "lock" the warm air in... just an idea... or a blanket...
Mine was accomplished with a 4" bilge blower motor in the heater channel... cost $20 and works perfectly!
_________________
No VW right now....  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bleyseng
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
I had a set of those fans in my 72 Kombi and I thought they were an option. Worked pretty well in the summer sitting in traffic but they are fairly loud.
On heat, make sure everything is in tip top condition and no leaks. Then it will heat up the cabin ok.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blue jay
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 51
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jered wrote: |
| I Mine was accomplished with a 4" bilge blower motor in the heater channel... cost $20 and works perfectly! |
Where can you buy these. I need one for my bus for these cold Canadian winters.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MrBreeze
Samba Hitman
Joined: October 06, 2002
Posts: 5540
Location: Lawn Guyland, Noo Yawk
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blue jay wrote: |
| jered wrote: |
| I Mine was accomplished with a 4" bilge blower motor in the heater channel... cost $20 and works perfectly! |
Where can you buy these. I need one for my bus for these cold Canadian winters. |
Got mine at the local marine shop.
_________________
-=Rob
WTB: Bay Shore or Queensboro VW Frames
HBB 1984-2009
RW 1943-2011
ER 1964-2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lowdowndub
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 416
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Can anyone enlighten the rest of us about where to install a bilge blower.
My heating system is in great shape but I like the idea of the extra blower.
- Ben |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jered
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2006
Posts: 436
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
the 4 inch pipe (paper coated pipe) from the rear to the front of the bus...
I cut a section out (yes I know, mine was perfect and I destroyed it)... worked the 4" blower into the pipe and sealed it all with "water proof tape" looks like aluminum or chrome tape and is some sticky stuff...
I wrapped the heck out of it and have had no issues of water getting in...
I can't find a picture now... but will upload on tomorrow... I have to get out the door to work... so I don't have time to take one today...
_________________
No VW right now.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lowdowndub
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2003
Posts: 416
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the info.
Look forward to the pictures.
- Ben |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dan macmillan
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 3110
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I ran my 77 Type 2 for the last 2 winters in Northern Ontario Canada. -40 in Feb. Nothing beats a sealed system, no leaks, double wrapped with silver bubble wrap and aluminum tape and a BA6 Gas heater. No extra "booster fans" I was pushing 200 deg F onto the windshield at minus 10 and 160 at minus 40. Try that with any liquid cooled car. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| No extra "booster fans" |
Looking at the schematics for a BA6 heater it shows both a heater blower like a regular bus plus an air circulation blower. The air circulation blower sure sounds like a booster fan to me. Would like to know the boost of this integral fan compared with the boost from a bildge blower, I suspect that it is greater by an order of 2 or so. According to the specs in the BA6 manual the gas heater only increases the maximum heat output by about 50%, it sounds like most of the rest of the gain for the BA6 system comes from running way more air thru the heater boxes.
http://66.34.72.138/techinfo/index.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Duncwarw
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003
Posts: 3094
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
AGAIN, my Attwood 4" bilge blower is rated for a maximum of 160F.
I get 190F at the windshield. Guess what happens when you use a plastic blower. Melted, stinky, and downright unhealthy.
IF your system is in good shape, you will cook that blower.
I have one now in the engine compartment pushing into the system.
Much less air flow and MUCH less noise.
I intend to switch to dual fans back there but frankly, I don't use the blower much. Last winter at 0F outside, I drove comfortably with no gloves and only a light jacket. If I didn't have bad rubber all around, I'm sure I could tee shirt it all winter.
_________________
“To find yourself, think for yourself”
Socrates, 470 BC - 399 BC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jered
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2006
Posts: 436
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
sorry I totally brain farted about the picture...
ended up working from 0730 this morning... and still at work... 2200... get off at 0045... got to love long days at work!
Grrr.....
I promise I will post a picture of mine tomorrow afternoon..
_________________
No VW right now.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jered
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2006
Posts: 436
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
okay here it is...
I have a hot wire coming from a switch on the dash... and the ground to one of the bolts that hold the skid pan in place...
_________________
No VW right now.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dan macmillan
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 3110
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No extra "booster fans" |
Looking at the schematics for a BA6 heater it shows both a heater blower like a regular bus plus an air circulation blower. The air circulation blower sure sounds like a booster fan to me. Would like to know the boost of this integral fan compared with the boost from a bildge blower, I suspect that it is greater by an order of 2 or so. According to the specs in the BA6 manual the gas heater only increases the maximum heat output by about 50%, it sounds like most of the rest of the gain for the BA6 system comes from running way more air thru the heater boxes.
http://66.34.72.138/techinfo/index.html |
The BA6 heater does have 2 blowers. One located in the engine bay to provide adequate airflow at low engine rpm. When the rpms increase, 2 one way flaper valves close off and block the airflow from the aux blower. The recirculation blower is used to take warm cabin air and recirculate it into the gas heater intake so you are not heating cold air. It too has a flapper valve and at high rpms is blocked off. This stops the air from the engine from entering the passenger compartment before being heated by the gas unit. The trick I used was to weld the heat control doors on the heat exchangers open and welded all possible leaks { in the summer I just disconnect the tube near the park brake lever} The heat exchangers on a 77 are huge compared to older models. All tubes are double and tripple insulated using aluminumized bubble wrap and sticky aluminum tape. I have a temperature guage that reads the temp in the front riser tube just below the floor vents under the dash. It is continuously in the 160 to 200 deg range in the winter when running the gas heater. At one point my temp sensor that controls the gas heater output broke and I hit 220 while in the coffee shop drivethrough and it was still climbing when I turned the heater off. Considering the way the fans operate {only at low rpm} and that they are stock items I do not consider them to be "booster" fans. I can gaurantee you that my heating system will melt any bilge type blower in a matter of minutes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
