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wolfej1 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2005 Posts: 679 Location: North Royalton, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: Installed New Pop Top Canvas - My thoughts |
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Installed new poptop canvas utilizing the $245 3 window model from Bus Depot (which is a unit that is sold by a company named JustKampers located in the UK).
First thing I noticed is that the material used is definitely of a thinner grade material than the original. Somewhat disappointed My advice would be to get the expensive Westfalia replacement if this would be a problem for you. I wish I would have..
3 windows are a nice feature
That being said, I installed it with the top on, as I had nobody to assist me in taking it off. I think that of all of the work I have done on my van during the past year, this was the worst . I did not mind removing the engine, installing a new brake vacuum booster, new brake master cylinder, clutch slave cylinder, fuel pump and filter, rear brake lines, or lifting the rear end.
This job just sucked
If I had to do it again, I would make certain to have helpers and get the top off. I think the end result would have been more professional. Keep in mind I did not butcher anything, but it ain't perfect like I like things to be.
I got to the point where I just wanted the damn thing installed (after about 9 hours) and finished and I messed a few things up.
My advice:
Buy the best canvas you can if you are going to keep your van long term.
Have 2 helpers
Take the top off
Clean the top and roof while top is off
Have a small phillips screw driver
Have a good staple gun - if you need it (later vans do not)
Take your time
Don't get pissed off
Out, |
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Raynor Shine Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2005 Posts: 552
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: |
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I have to say, nothing I have done on my van, not even blower motor replacement tested my patience like this project.
Maybe because like you stated we want things to look perfect. I also agree, I purchased the gowesty sunbrella top & was suprised how much thinner it was than original. be careful screwing the bottom rails back on...
But at least you are done! |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Just becasue the material is thinner does not mean it is not as strong. There are some materials they use for kites that is paper thin and very strong. I think it is a threads per inch sort of thing. Thicker threads of the same material means stronger. But if the thread material is different, then all bets are off.
I sure am glad my top is basically OK, since we use it so little. I KNOW it is a PITA to put those things in. I too have heard many war stories about thiem. The 3 window design, though is really neat. Maybe the material has to be thinner so the two side widows fit right when folded? These tops seem to last a decade or two, so maybe in 20 years there will be something better.... _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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wolfej1 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2005 Posts: 679 Location: North Royalton, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Just becasue the material is thinner does not mean it is not as strong. There are some materials they use for kites that is paper thin and very strong. I think it is a threads per inch sort of thing. Thicker threads of the same material means stronger. But if the thread material is different, then all bets are off. |
Agreed...
However, I think all bets are off in this instance. There is no way that this material is stronger than the original. It seemed like it would rip pretty easily if one was not careful.... |
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Jeff Stewart Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2004 Posts: 1 Location: ROund Hill, Virginia
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: Westy Canvas |
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I too, used the less expensive Bus Depot canvas and regret it. Last time on another Westy I used Bus Depot's better canvas and was very satisfied-you get what you pay for! That said, even the cheap stuff has kept the interior dry even during some pretty good thunder storms, so while I wouldn't call it crap, it probably won't have the lifespan the heavier grade does. Jeff |
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dragonfire709 Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 154 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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I had the exact same problem with the replacement roof I got from JK here in the UL. Also the front bar really pulled on the cavas, which meant every time it rained the van got waterlogged. It looked like this(Van on the right).
Luckily JK were very good about it, and sourced and supplied me a German canvas(and lots of freebies!), which is very good quality thick canvas and fits like a glove. It took a while to sort out, but I am so much happier with the German roof. _________________ My name is Roy |
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dragonfire709 Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 154 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Ok.
How do I make the picture bigger?!?!? _________________ My name is Roy |
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mightyart Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004 Posts: 6188 Location: Portland, Oregon
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bacwmi Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 52 Location: Saint Louis area
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I installed the gowesty canvas (cheapest grade) and it seemed quite a bit thicker than the original. When closed it doesn't tuck up against the sides as neatly as the original but it is acceptable. I was worried that with its slightly looser weave or thread count that it might leak -I was wrong, it did great. it came with a nice water repellant coating.
I installed it without removing the top and it wasn't that bad for me. It was during the summer monsoon so there was a decent cool breeze blowing so I didn't sweat too bad. A power screwdriver w/extention makes a difference. took sat and sun to get it on. I would install a new canvas over having to put on a steering boot anyday of the week (never been so pissed off in my life)
thanks |
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dragonfire709 Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 154 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Mightyart!
Lets try this;
_________________ My name is Roy |
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msinabottle Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005 Posts: 3492 Location: Denver Area, Colorado
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: Anybody tried the Acrylic? |
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I'd be interested in going in the direction of the modern 3-window synthetics--from the horrible descriptions of the job of replacing it, I'd as soon not have to do it again for a couple of decades.
Anyone tried one of those?
Best! |
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noganav Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2006 Posts: 1236 Location: San Diego CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Damn that is one sweet hi-top camper, is it a euro westy? |
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tsombrero1 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2006 Posts: 288 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Huh, I replaced mine last weekend with a new Sunbrella one. I did it with the top on and it took about 7 hours at a relaxed pace... kinda a pain but maybe I have a high tolerance for torture? If other vanagon jobs are that much easier, I'm going to enjoy working on this baby...
BTW mine has the screws, not the staples. Maybe that's the part that sucks.
Anyway, it's in now and I love it. Seems plenty strong and looks great too. _________________ Tennessee Sombrero
1988 Westy, Syncro-nated
2003 Aprilia Caponord (now with Jif)
Atari 2600
1970 Earthbound Humanoid |
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wolfej1 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2005 Posts: 679 Location: North Royalton, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Also the front bar really pulled on the cavas, which meant every time it rained the van got waterlogged. It looked like this(Van on the right). |
Actually, mine pulls a bit tight on the front as well. not nearly as bad as yhe picture though. I think it would be better to be a bit loose than too tight. |
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dragonfire709 Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2005 Posts: 154 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it was pulling very tight. We couldnt quite work out why, and it was very loose at the sides. It was embarrasing to pop the top! The German roof is much better, almost like the original.
The other van is an Autosleeper. Its a UK conversion, favoured by the older generation of campers, but my friend has extensively modified it. It does get a lot of stares at the shows! _________________ My name is Roy |
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Dellaone Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2006 Posts: 110
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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"BTW mine has the screws, not the staples. Maybe that's the part that sucks."
Aye.
Thats the part that sucks.
Especially like I did with the top still on.
Dave |
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wolfej1 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2005 Posts: 679 Location: North Royalton, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yes - the staples are a big factor in the suckiness of the job. Very awkward and messy.
Screwing would be better! |
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wbx Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2005 Posts: 1254 Location: Monterey, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody tried the Acrylic? |
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msinabottle wrote: |
from the horrible descriptions of the job of replacing it... |
My canvas replacement experience was quite a bit different. I had a buddy come over, we started the job, stopped half way through, went for a bike ride, had some beers, got further along, called it quits, and then i finished the next day. It was tedious, but fun having a friend help me.
Sounds like that may be the key
And yes, the thin replacement canvas is a bit dissapointing. Not that there is a performance difference that i can tell...
-Damon _________________ '84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
My "perspective" mantra:
A Volkswagen Vanagon is just a material thing,
As such, it is of the earth,
And if i need to, I can let my Van go. |
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Dharma_Bum Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2004 Posts: 73 Location: Blue Grass KY
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Good information. Thanks for sharing it. This project is on my next spring’s to-do list <<This job just sucked>> and I am already looking forward to it!
I was planning on going with the 3-window design in the Sunbrella. The Sunbrella is a very nice fabric and wears very well. I lived in the Caribbean for a couple years and Sunbrella was the fabric of choice for all outdoor applications - boats, yachts, patio furniture…. As I recall there are two different grades of the Sunbrella. I reupholstered some furniture with it. It is not bad to work with and I used the heavier grade. It sews up like a heavy cotton duck fabric. Traditional cotton canvas in the salt air disintegrates after a couple years.
I would think that the Sunbrella pop-top canvas would last the life of your Vanagon. My OEM canvas is still in fairly decent shape after 23-years. The weakest point on the Sunbrella would be the seams and the thread. I would hope the manufacture would use a thick high grade nylon thread with this fabric.
I was planning on removing the pop-top for this job. Your experience confirmed this. This would be a good opportunity to refurbish the fiberglass top and the cargo basket. There are a couple good posts in the archive on marine grade paints to use.
I am curious how the 3-window Sunbrella would roll up with the pop-top closed.
Do you have any pictures of this project? I would be interested in seeing the steps. |
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rudar Samba Member
Joined: July 04, 2006 Posts: 53 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be possible/ advisable to ``upgrade'' from the staple system to one using screws if and when I get around to replacing the canvas? All one would need, it seems, is a rail with some grip to it and holes for the screws; I'd imagine something from the insulation section of the hardware store could be pressed into duty... |
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