"What wheels fit?" The ultimate wheel post.

[kenmag]

nice find van-go, those phateon wheels are incredible - 5x112 too.
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87GL Westy/suby ej22
87GL tintop/suby ej22
05 Golf TDI
95 jetta GLX

[zohami]

I can get these cheap from a neighbor. Would they work on my Transporter? No slider issue, and I have mudflaps already. Would I need to make any mods or use different bolts, studs, spacers etc.?

Wheels from a 2003 Mercedes E320
Wheels 8JX16 5X112 36 mm offset
Tires: Michelin Energy MXV4 plus 225/55R 16

[fuzzymath]

[Van-go108]

[Christopher Schimke]

If you have been following this thread, please see the edit that I added to the first post of the thread.

I compiled a list of all of the known combinations that people are running in an effort to make it easier for some people to understand what fits what and how. If I have made any mistakes or if anyone has anything to add, please let me know.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[McVanagon]

http://www.hrps.demon.nl/jwbus/T2-tires.htm

I was looking for something else, and I found this. This link may reside earlier in this thread. I'm sorry, but as I went through all these pages, I caught myself only looking at the pitcures.
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'69 Mike
'85 GL
'87 Wolfsburg Hardtop

[Franklinstower]

I am picking up these wheels today:

They are from a 2000 S500 mercedes. The seller thinks they are 17 X 7.5 with an ET of 35. I checked out a couple tire/wheel fitment websites and two of the sites say these should be a 14 mm stud. So that makes me happy - I will not have to enlarge those! I will post an update when they are mounted!

Paul
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug

[tencentlife]

I would make real sure of that if I were you. MB used 12 x 1.5 studs for most of their cars.

[Franklinstower]

[danfromsyr]

Great deal on a set of rims.. may have to get longer studs in the rear though.
Item number: 120144691666
Mercedes S class 7.5 x 16"

less then $100/rim shipped.. wish I had the spare $$
best luck

Dan

[scobax]

I thought I would weigh in on this one. I completed the Audi 5000 Turbo wheel transformation about a year ago. At the time I wrote all of my experiences with the procedure into a Word document. It's a long document, but it should answer alot of questions for somebody interested in the Audi Turbo wheel installation process. Here goes...
Installing Audi 5000 Turbo wheels on a Syncro Vanagon

This document will cover the procedure for converting a 1987 Vanagon Syncro to use the Audi 5000 Turbo 15" aluminum wheels.
I found a set of the Audi 5000 Turbo aluminum wheels (circa 1987) on eBay at an unbeatable price, $125 delivered. These are the six spoke, 15x6 ET45 wheels. It took piecing together several discussions on the Samba forums to get a general idea of how to proceed with installation. One of the most difficult obstacles was that of locating parts suppliers. I will list the suppliers that I used at the end of this piece. There are several key items required in the conversion that separate a job done correctly from a hack job that can be downright dangerous.
The rear wheels…
So, what do you have? First there is the consideration of what wheel studs that you may have currently installed on your Vanagon. We will begin with the rear wheels. If yours are the alloy wheel type stud, they may be long enough in the rear to accommodate the thickness of the Audi wheel, provided that you do not intend to use spacers. The only issue that mounting the wheels in this fashion will bring up is the fact that the wheel center caps will not go on due to the axle end and nut sticking out. The minimum spacer you can use and also use the center caps is ½”. This will put the rear wheels about 1/8” outboard of the stock offset. As the offset of the Audi wheel (ET45) is different (more inboard centerline) than the stock wheel (ET35), I decided to use ½”spacers in the rear to achieve a just slightly greater than stock offset, thus requiring a longer than stock stud. I don’t know if the factory alloy wheel stud will accommodate a ½” spacer and the Audi wheel, mine had steel wheels. It is absolutely imperative that the stud protrudes all the way through the lugnut with the wheel installed. Anyway, if you have the shorter steel wheel version stud, as in my case, then you will need to replace the rear studs with longer ones regardless. Replacing the rear studs is a relatively straight forward procedure. First, remove the large axle nut and slide the rear brake drum off of the hub. Then slide the hub off of the axle. That’s it. Place the hub in a vise taking care not to mar the surface that faces the wheel bearings, and drive the studs out from the threaded end. Use a punch or drift for this procedure, or you run the risk of mushrooming the stud and it will not make it through the hole. This is an extremely important detail not to be overlooked as this mistake can add hours to the job, and remove years from your life. Driving in the new studs is the reverse of removal.
Care should be taken to align the knurl on the new stud to insure a tight fit. (The “knurl” is the set of ridges that travel around the unthreaded portion of the stud shaft.) The new studs should offer significant resistance going in. If the studs sort of drop right in, you either have the wrong knurl diameter (more on this later) or the hub needs to be replaced. As replacement hubs are ridiculously expensive, another option might be to weld the studs in from the rear. I offer this as an option only, as welding the stud could change it’s temper and potentially weaken it. You decide. In any case, the last thing you want is a stud that spins in its seat, making the removal of a lugnut impossible.
The front…
Now, on to the front hubs. Again this description is for the Syncro only. Those of you with the 2wd versions may find that the wheels fit with no problem. How nice for you. The options here are many, so bear with me.
To bore or not to bore, or why I chose not to bore…
There is one method currently offered that includes boring out the center of the wheels to a depth of approximately ¼” and a diameter greater than 66mm in order to fit over the front hub (syncro). This has been done by several people in the past with seeming success. This option is typically chosen to avoid disassembling the front hub which facilitates removal and replacement of the front wheel bearings. This is a MAJOR consideration that I will explore in detail a bit later. The issues that I have with boring out the wheels are that I find the idea a little structurally questionable. While it is true that the holes for mounting the wheel are machined, the center hole is cast. A lot depends on who does the machining of the wheel center. Maybe I worry too much. Perhaps a metallurgist or qualified engineer could weigh in on this one? Secondarily, there is the question of offset. By boring out the center of the wheel, the offset goes from an ET35 for the stock wheel to an ET45 for the Audi wheel, or 10mm inboard of stock. On a vehicle with a high center of gravity as the Vanagon Syncro has, it seems to me that a wider stance is more desirable. Additionally, as I decided to go with the ½” spacer in the rear to compensate for offset differences and to be able to use the wheels’ center caps, it seemed like using the front wheels without spacers would only exaggerate the offset problem. Also, with regards to boring out the centers of the wheels, this method would require that all of the wheels should be bored out including the spare, this allows for proper tire rotation and emergency roadside tire changes. Lastly, I found that several of the machine shops that I spoke with were unwilling to do the job citing questions of liability. You may have better luck.
The spacer option…
After reading all of the considerations related to boring the wheel centers, you may wonder why anyone would bother. Well, here’s why. The alternative is to use spacers on the front hubs to clear the ¼” lip around the hub center. This requires installing longer front wheel studs to accommodate the new wheel and spacer. This is true on a Syncro no matter which stock stud length you have. No problem, right? Wrong. Replacing the front studs requires removal of the front hub from the bearing. The hub must be pressed out of the bearing with a significant amount of force, typically this is beyond the scope of the do it yourselfer, as in my case, where the task required a serious amount of effort from a 12 ton press. When the hub is pressed out, it takes the inner bearing race with it, which destroys the bearing. Once the hub is out, the inner bearing race must be pulled off of the hub. Here again, the services of a machine shop are in order. Once the hub is free of all of the bearing bits, the old wheel studs can be removed and new ones installed. This procedure is outlined in the description of the rear wheel stud replacement. The remnants of the wheel bearing have to be pressed out of the bearing housing, and then a new bearing must be pressed in. Once the new bearing is in place, along with inner and outer seals, the hub can be pressed into the bearing. If you happen to own a 12 ton press, or know someone who does, then you’re in luck. Otherwise this entire procedure represents a great deal of machine shop work and can get expensive and time consuming. Some steps can be done by the appropriately creative back yard mechanic, but do so at the risk of your own sanity. For instance, pressing the hub out of the bearing/housing can be accomplished using a cylindrical tool that presses against the inner portion of the hub. Then apply some force (your choice of delivery method) to the cylindrical tool, and the hub will break free of the old bearing. You can then replace the studs and carry the whole mess to the machine shop for the final bearing pressing. This will save you at least one trip to the shop. This may be a good time to mention that I found new front hubs to be available only from the VW dealer to the tune of $485 each. So do it yourself at your own risk!
Once the whole assembly is back together, you can install the entire unit back on the van. By the way, at some stage prior to reassembly it’s a good idea to inspect/replace worn front struts, ball joints, cv boots/shafts and tie rod ends. No sense doing all of this twice. Finally when the front end is back together, install the spacers and mount your new wheels. The benefits of this method include; unmolested wheels, proper offset due to the spacers, the knowledge that the wheel bearings have been replaced and when the work was done, The opportunity to fix any other front end wear items while you’re at it. Drawbacks? It was a colossal pain in the ass. Some say that the addition of spacers causes more load to be placed on components like wheel bearings or the wheel studs. As the force transmitted to these parts would have more to do with offset than spacing alone, I do not prescribe to this belief, providing that the spacing was not excessive. And, oh yes one last thing, the exercise provides you with the opportunity to spend one helluva lot of time and money.
A few details…
-The single best investment that you can make prior to attempting repairs of this type is the appropriate Bentley repair manual. Remember- They’re not expensive, they’re priceless.
-Finding spacers in ¼” thickness, as many people recommend, and the appropriate 5 lug 112mm pattern was quite difficult. By using 5/16” spacers which are readily available on eBay, and installing them with a slightly longer stud on the front hubs, you can remain close to the stock offset and also remain within ¼” offset difference of the rear wheels. I had mine machined to ¼” while I was at the machine shop. Now, they are absolutely ¼” all the way around. The ½” wheel spacers for the rear are also available on eBay. I have just noticed that someone is selling custom machined wheel spacers for Audi wheels on eBay. (Search: Audi wheel spacer) …expensive but you may find that they are far more dimensionally accurate than the sand cast cheapo’s , since they are machined. Pretty too.
-The stock stud has a 14mm diameter, 1.5mm thread pitch, 12mm deep shank and knurl, and a 14.75 knurl diameter. If you use the company below, just order by the part number listed and you will receive the right ones. I would recommend a 52mm length stud in the rear with a ½” spacer, and a 64mm length stud in the front with a 5/16” spacer. The 64mm stud is a bit long, but more importantly, it’s not too short. You need the longer stud up front because the assembly is thicker than in the rear. I purchased the wheel studs from a company called 4 wheel parts wholesalers inc., straight out of Compton, CA. Their website is http//:www.4wheelparts.com . They can get the studs, which are made by a company called Swayaway. You can look at the studs on this web page: http//:www.swayaway.com/vw_components.htm#vw14 . This company is a wholesaler so you cannot purchase directly from them, just call 4 wheel parts. The part numbers are: saw8052 for the 52 mm, and saw8065 for the 64mm. These particular studs are hardened and of very high quality.
-Another crucial factor is that of proper lugnuts. The Audi wheel originally took a lug bolt that has a ball taper. The stock VW lugnuts have a flat taper, and so the VW lugnuts are not compatible, as they will not seat properly. I located the proper ball tapered lugnuts at a company called Evolution Sports (http//:www.evolutionsports.com). You will have to call and ask for a part number hr145003. I don’t believe that these show up on their website.
-Accessing the rear axle nut through the hole provided in the Audi wheel is impossible. This makes it a bit difficult to break the nut free while the vehicle is resting on the wheels prior to working on the rear brakes, for instance. Have fun with that one.
Summary…
I hope this has helped someone with their decisions.
The bore option is the way to go if you just want to get it over with without all of the fuss, however, there are some not insignificant compromises to be made. The spacer method is more of a technical pursuit, not to be attempted by those without plenty of time and patience. At the end of the process, I spent far less money using the Audi wheels, spacers, bearings, etc. than I would have purchasing wheels alone from one of the many boutique shops out there. The South African wheels are probably the all around best option as they bolt right on, but they are very expensive comparatively. This entire project cost me $1020, that’s for everything, four alloy wheels, one steel spare wheel (Passat), 5 new tires, bearings, seals, studs, lugnuts, beer, machine work etc. If you have the time and requisite skill set, you should find this a rewarding undertaking at a percentage of the cost of other wheel options.

[odd todd]

Not to give away the best secret out there...

I put a set of Mercedes CLK 320 wheels on my '86 Westy. These are 16x7, ET37 so they don't need spacers or longer studs or bolts. The wheels are forged aluminum which are plenty better than all of the other cast Mercedes wheels and they are only about 1/8" thicker or so where the bolts go through than the stock steel wheels. I had to drill out the 12mm lugs for 14mm lugs but there is a large enough seat for the stock Vanagon bolts and nuts. The wheels only came on '98 and '99 CLK320's so they are a little hard to find. It's ok though because the Mercedes people don't like them and give them away (or throw them away like the set I missed by about 1 week).

Here's a shot of them on my '86 Fridge...

-todd

[riceye]

Very cool, Todd!
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'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig

[[email protected]]

Gotta set of Porsche wheels onthe way sthis style boxster S:

specs are 17x7 55mm et

17x 8.5 50mm et

I see some info on the first page of this thread, just want to confirm compatability with the slider door from anyone with some hands on experience with this offset and width wheel and what spacer/adapter is working.
The Ronals will be going on my buddies '87 wolfsburg
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Markus

[RevKevin]

Hey Loogy!
Saw that pic and was all "Wait, I know that Vanagon..."
I see you on the plat, Union Hill and 202 all the time.

Anyways, continuing with the subject:

This is a pic taken right when I bought it my '82 Vanagon, it came with 14" alloys which I'm pretty sure are stock but I've never seen any other ones like them. I'm still pretty new to the whole Vanagon thing though, and this is my first air cooled so it's a little bit of a double whammy, all my VWs before this were watercooled A1s and A2s.
I bought it because a place up in Everett cracked the tranny housing on my '87 5000 CS Tubo Quattro when they overtorqued the mounting bolts for the Clutch Slave Cyl and refused to own up to it so I had to cut my losses and sell it for parts to a kid from Woodinville who had one the same year, sucks because I loved that car and it got me through that snow storm last winter no problem, but I got my vanagon out of it, although I'm a little worried about how I'm going make it up to Ames Lake this winter.
I was pretty stoked when I found out that the spare set of 15" alloys from my Audi had the same bold pattern as my vanagon, but ended up letting them go with the car because I didn't know anyone who could machine them for me. The previous owner had put 185/70 14 passenger car tires on it which were starting to crack pretty bad, I just dropped 500 bucks into getting 8 ply light truck tires on it that I'm pretty happy with though but it means I'm stuck with the 14" wheels for a while but they don't look too bad, a hell of a lot better than the stock steel ones.
See you around the Eastside Loogy!

[TSR53]

[Christopher Schimke]

Hey RevKevin, that would definately be me. I live up on Union Hill. All I can say for Ames Lake hill is STUDDED SNOW TIRES! If you need any help with your new T3, let me know. That's a cool looking Vanangon. Call me weird but I like some of the early '80's graphics. Those wheels you have are actually quite rare in the US and reasonably desireable to the right person. Don't toss them. Welcome to boot camp!
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[Christopher Schimke]

Thompson, I think your right on money with everything you said.

A couple of things to be aware of; that H&R catalog is outdated. There are many more applications that are not listed there. One being a 25mm thick Mercedes fitment 5x112 to 5x130 (Porsche) and a direct Vanagon (T3) fitment. The T3 fitment is 25mm thick and is hubcentric to the 2wd Vanagon front hub and to the Porsche wheels. As you stated, if you want a 20mm thick H&R adapter, you will have to bore out a set of Audi/VW fitment adapters to fit the T3 hub.

Another great source for H&R components is ***Achtuning*** . It's owned by a friend of mine and yeah, this is a plug for his business but besides that they are a great resource since the H&R warehouse is just up north a ways, they can have your parts asap as long as H&R has them in stock. Talk to Bill and tell him Chris Schimke sent you.

One other thing, I am very concerned about keeping front wheel offsets in line due to the bearing loads and the affects that various offsets have on suspension geometry, but for the rear, it is no where near as critical. The bearings are a completely differnt design than the fronts and can take much more load. I have been running 14mm offset on the rear of mine for over 100,000 miles and there are no signs of any issues with the bearings.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[TSR53]

Chris, thanks for the confirmation. Awesome about the H&R 25mm adaptors for the direct fit on 2WD!! This would explain the Turner motorsport listing then. Kewl. I'll call up Achtuning and get dialed in, thanks for the connection.

Q. Have you machined a 20mm Audi/VW 57.1mm Trak+ adaptor up to 67mm? This would be for the rear.

I'd would think that mis-matched adaptors front from H&R and rears custom by Motorsport-tech wouldn't be a good idea either?

[Van-go108]

That's too funny.....I am a "lurker" on that brickyard forum. To bring that up here simplifys my life. I spend way too much time here already.
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"Okay, so there's 6 beers and 5 of us. You know what this means don't you? 4 of you are going to have to leave."


1973 Thing
1957 Continental Mark II Click to view image