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?Waldo?
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 Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:11 pm Post subject: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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I recently put an '85 automatic Adventurewagen into service. With the 1.9 WBX it's a bit low on power which seems to be exacerbated by early shifts. I have the accelerator adjusted so that I get full range of throttle (idle switch to full pedal switch) before hitting the kickdown. Kickdown works as it should. I'm curious what the stock shift points are supposed to be at full throttle without kickdown engaged. Right now, 1-2 happens at 2900 rpms which seems really early to me. 2-3 happens a bit later at a little over 3000 rpms. I find that I could often use the extra rpms in 1st with the low power of the 1.9 WBX.
At full throttle and no kickdown, what rpm is the 1-2 shift supposed to occur?
How can I raise the rpm of the shift? |
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kamzcab86
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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I just drove my 2.1 over Christmas, but I don't generally pay attention to shift points.  It does get to third gear rather quickly though. If I need it to stay in second (like entering a highway from an uphill ramp), I'll simply manually shift it into second, then, once at the gear's top speed, shift to D.
In the meantime, the big green book shows upshift points at full throttle in mph (p. 37-17 to 37.19).
NH (1.9L)
1-2: 16-25
2-3: 37-46
NK (2.1L)
1-2: 13-24
2-3: 37-45
My van is garage-bound until time for BBB in a couple of weeks, so I'll defer the rpm part to others.
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1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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| I've seen the charts in the Bentley, but don't trust the speedo at low speeds. Also, 16-25 is huge range. I was hoping for some input on first-hand examples of the rpm of full pedal 1-2 and more importantly how to adjust the shift point to higher rpms. |
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djkeev
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vwfreek61
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Joined: May 31, 2004
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Location: Green Bay, WI
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| I've seen the charts in the Bentley, but don't trust the speedo at low speeds. Also, 16-25 is huge range. I was hoping for some input on first-hand examples of the rpm of full pedal 1-2 and more importantly how to adjust the shift point to higher rpms. |
Plug the RPM, tire size, and gear ratios into a gear ratio calculator and it will give you the actual speed.
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1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT |
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:04 am Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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| vwfreek61 wrote: |
| Plug the RPM, tire size, and gear ratios into a gear ratio calculator and it will give you the actual speed. |
No it won't on an automatic. |
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oceanair
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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Those ranges depend on how much throttle you are giving her. Light pedal, earlier shifts, at least in mine. I have no problem going to the floor on a hwy speedup up for longer shifts. The engine doesn't mind one bit; it's water cooled and the extra throttle doesn't heat it up. It's a 1.9, stand on the throttle when necessary.
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84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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The ranges listed in the Bentley are specifically for full pedal without kickdown and full pedal with kickdown. Those are very specific pedal locations.
When accelerating from a stop full pedal but no kickdown, at what rpm does your 1-2 shift occur? Your 2-3 shift?
Is there any adjustment available for the shift points? |
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vwfreek61
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| vwfreek61 wrote: |
| Plug the RPM, tire size, and gear ratios into a gear ratio calculator and it will give you the actual speed. |
No it won't on an automatic. |
With the ranges specified at full throttle it will be close enough.
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Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT |
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vwfreek61
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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Shift points are adjustable by removing or adding weight to the governor.
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Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT |
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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| vwfreek61 wrote: |
| With the ranges specified at full throttle it will be close enough. |
It would not be close enough to be useful for the questions I'm asking.
I'm specifically asking for a few other people with 1.9 automatics to do a full pedal start in first and let me know at what rpm their 1-2 shift occurs and at what rpm their 2-3 shift occurs. Do you have that information? |
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vwfreek61
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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Using the specs from the Bentley and a stock size tire it calculates out to about 2500-3500 for the 1-2 shift and 3000-3500 for the 2-3 shift.
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Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT |
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djkeev
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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The length of the rod between the tranny and the throttle body works in conjunction with the governor to control the part throttle shift points. IIRC you lengthen the rod to delay the shift and shorten it to make the shift happen earlier.
Don't go messing with the governor weights unless you want to be looking for a new governor. It is easy to readjust the length of the throttle rod if you get it wrong, but not easy at all to add mass back to one of the governor weights. |
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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As I stated in my first post, I already adjusted the rod from trans to throttle body very precisely. It is at idle when released and hits full throttle just prior to kickdown. I understand how that works and how to adjust it and have already done so.
Is there really no one on this forum with a 1.9 WBX automatic who is willing to do a full throttle acceleration and report back what the rpms are at the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts? |
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oceanair
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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How many people with 1.9s have tachs and factory sized tires?
It shifts early based on load, so if you go to the floor pre-kickdown, it will shift later than with a light foot.
If you have it correctly adjusted as you say, go heavy on the pedal as one does with a 4 cylinder or shift by hand, it does no damage to do so.
Mine shifts from 2 into 3 more quickly than I like at times so I just shift to 2 and wind it out. Light on the foot and it shifts so quickly through 2 that it might as well go 1-3 directly, heavy foot and it winds it out much further. Want more, I shift by hand.
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84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back! |
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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I have no idea how many people have 1.9 automatics with tachs. The tire size is not relevant. Larger or smaller tires will not change the RPM of the shift at full throttle pre-kickdown.
I'm completely aware that the farther you press the pedal, the later it shifts. I also know that 1+1=2 and that the sky is UP. I'm not asking how to drive the van and none of the information regarding driving techniques is at all helpful or even on topic.
I'm wanting to know if what I consider a very early full throttle upshift (2,900 for 1-2) is normal. To that end, I will just keep on asking - can someone with a 1.9 WBX and automatic trans (and tach) do a full pedal acceleration (no kickdown) and tell me what rpm their trans upshifts from 1-2 and 2-3? |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
As I stated in my first post, I already adjusted the rod from trans to throttle body very precisely. It is at idle when released and hits full throttle just prior to kickdown. I understand how that works and how to adjust it and have already done so.
Is there really no one on this forum with a 1.9 WBX automatic who is willing to do a full throttle acceleration and report back what the rpms are at the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts? |
If it isn't shifting correctly then it either has to be the governor which is probably working just fine or it will be the length of the rod. On 003 boxes there was also a way to change the 1-2 shift point in relation to the 2-3 shift point, but I don't believe the 010 box has that adjustment. Lengthen the rod an 1/8" or so and get back to us. |
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?Waldo?
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| If it isn't shifting correctly then... |
That is the question I keep asking... is a 2,900 rpm full throttle upshift from 1-2 correct or is it an early shift that indicates a fault (e.g. in line pressure, governor, or valve body)?
If I were to lengthen the rod 1/8", the throttle would no longer be pulled to full throttle prior to entering kickdown. If I were to shorten the rod 1/8", the throttle would no longer reach idle when there was not any pressure on the pedal.
Last edited by ?Waldo? on Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oceanair
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| Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: '85 Automatic Shift Points |
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84 Vanagon Pop Top Conversion from Tin Top, 1970 Ghia - all sweet rides! Love em!
Previous: Green 72 Tin Top, White 72 Westy, Blue 64 Beetle, Yellow 71 Squareback, 2014 Jetta TDI Wagon - wish I could have them all back!
Last edited by oceanair on Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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