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Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD)
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jhax
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Greetings all,

This thread will catalogue the adventures of refreshing Otto, a T3 my wife and I purchased, drove while on honeymoon in Europe, then imported back to the states. That thread can be found here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=759358&highlight=

Otto is a T3 with a 1.6TD JX code motor and a 094 5 speed transmission.

The list of what is needed and wanted is as follows.

Add truck mirrors (i purchased these from ebay in europe and had the exporter thrown them in the bus prior to shipping him)

Add AC, to include a serpentine belt conversion using AHU brackets, condensor, ALH harmonic balancer, VR6 water pump pulley and a behind the dash kit.

Refresh all of the shifting mechanisms and add a short shift kit.

Add external oil cooler (volvo 240 sandwich plate, lines and cooler)

Add Saab intercooler

Raise the bus and install bigger wheels and tires

Change the CVs to Porsche 944 units

Address any head issues (head gasket, inspect pre chambers for cracks etc)

Refresh and Tune the motor (giles pump, GTD injectors, etc etc)

Update the glow plug electrical circuit

Add necessary gauges

And whatever else comes up

I have no intention of performing a motor swap as this is our camping van and is a unique vehicle.

Now for photos.


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This is the aux battery relay. It was previously not hooked up to anything so I wired it as it should be and now my aux battery is charging again. A working fridge will be nice to have.

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Stay tuned!


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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Hello!

I'm not sure the whole multi rib pulley system can be retrofitted on your 1.6. The injection pump location is a bit different than on a 1.9, I would research for alternator bracket interference. Also the AC compressor will hit the carrier bar, it does fit on Syncro bars, but engine will sit a bit lower. You will have to modify the carrier bar as such if you keep the 2WD.
Also running AC on a JX is gonna be a big load on it, be ready for that....
You'll need to get rid or modify the oil filler pipe, if you blank cap the oil pan, you'll need another valve cover from a Golf/Jetta etc to have the oil cap there.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

I have fitted the serpentine belt system to a 1.6TD in a Vanagon ('83 2WD carrier bars) and it fits fine with a few caveats.

1. The serpentine belt system puts more stress on the 1.6 crank/sprocket key interface than the v-belt setup. That interface is not up to the task of driving the serpentine belt system. If going that route, the crankshaft should be machined to accept the D-style sprocket from the Mk3 TDI engines (AHU).

2. The clutched alternator pulley should be used. Do not use the solid pulley!

3. The serpentine bracket is fitted to the engine with 4 unique fasteners into 4 bosses that are cast into the engine block. The 1.6TD engine is missing one of those 4 bosses. Missing that bolt will stress the bracket more than intended and potentially break it. I solved that issue by welding an additional bracket onto the injection pump bracket in order to accept that extra bolt. doing that right requires skill and understanding.

4. As Alika mentioned, the oil filler is an issue. I have modified a couple of them to fit with the A/C compressor. There's a thread I made about it in the archives. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=720670

5. If you have power steering you can use the VR6 water pump pulley. If you do not, then the simple way to deal with it is to use the Quantum/Audi 1.6TD water pump pulley.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

He doesn't have factory PS from what I can see, the reservoir should be left a few inches, next to the fuel filter.

The AAZ/1Y etc... had the same keyway as the JX on the crank, are your comments valid as well for the added stress on the crank? I know the D profile is better, but just for the sake of science Smile

To the OP, switch to 1st generation Tdi already, much faster Cool
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
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patrickgreen
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to seeing the rebuild...

I have an 82 diesel Westfalia with a 1.6 JX, 091 transmission with water to air intercooler, and a Giles pump. I like you do not want to swap motors. While it is slow, the motor has never left me stranded and is always getting around 28/29 mpg. It takes constant maintenance but it is 40 years old and a fun hobby.

Congratulation on your European trip. Driving a VW van through countries where I did not speak the language I would be drinking a lot of beer also.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
He doesn't have factory PS from what I can see, the reservoir should be left a few inches, next to the fuel filter.

The AAZ/1Y etc... had the same keyway as the JX on the crank, are your comments valid as well for the added stress on the crank? I know the D profile is better, but just for the sake of science Smile

To the OP, switch to 1st generation Tdi already, much faster Cool


Yeah, the AAZ/1Z are notorious for ruining the sprocket and the end of the crank and consequently smashing pistons into valves.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
He doesn't have factory PS from what I can see, the reservoir should be left a few inches, next to the fuel filter.

The AAZ/1Y etc... had the same keyway as the JX on the crank, are your comments valid as well for the added stress on the crank? I know the D profile is better, but just for the sake of science Smile

To the OP, switch to 1st generation Tdi already, much faster Cool


Yeah, the AAZ/1Y are notorious for ruining the sprocket and the end of the crank and consequently smashing pistons into valves.


I corrected your typo Wink
So it has to do with serpentine belt, more accessories or the lack of clutch pulley on the alternator?
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Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Indeed, that was a typo.

I think it is the combination of factors. The key/sprocket is weaker, the serp alternator spins faster and has more inertia, and the serpentine belt has less ability to slip with the power pulses of the engine or overrun of the accessories. The Mk3 TDI engines still suffer from occasional crank/sprocket failures, but they are much less common. I don't think I would run the serp setup without both the crank update and the clutched alt pulley.
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jhax
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Thank you all for the replies and support. I fully intend to stick with the JX. I already have a highly modified MK2 Golf with a TDI so I have no desire to go through swapping again. Plus I do love the simplicity and uniqueness of the OG motor.

I had planned on using the clutched alternator. I was hoping that utilizing only the alternator, no PS, I would be able to get away with keeping the keyed crank.

Thanks for the tip regarding the Quantum/1.6TD water pump pulley.

Waldo, do you have photos of the welded bracket? I assume that would be difficult given the JX IP bracket is steel and the AHU accessory bracket is Aluminum.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

An mTDI is exactly as simple as the JX, but gives better power, better fuel economy, and better reliability. Not saying you should swap if you don't want to but claiming simplicity as the reason doesn't wash.

You can keep the keyed crank if you want, but I sure wouldn't if fitting the serp belt setup.

Ha, I didn't think I still had any pics of that welded bracket, but I looked and happened to find some:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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It needs to be a slotted hole in order to allow the injection pump bracket to move up/down for setting the timing belt tracking.
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jhax
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

One of the reasons from what Mike (busman) told me was the TDIs, because they are low revving engines, and the torque produced by them has a tendency to tear the T3 transmissions apart. Something I would like to avoid if possible. Thank you for the photo that certainly helps.

Looks like an attempt to make a tool was made back in 2010

http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,27450.0.html
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Yeah, I have a tool that cuts the flat with the engine in the car. Ilikevwdiesel is a friend of mine and actually based the version in that thread off my tool.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

As in the broach or the broach and the jig (i guess you would call it)?

Also, Waldo it looks like this quantum water pump pulley 068121029A is a V belt pulley. Is that correct? Are you suggesting I maintain the V belt system?
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

I own the broach and jig that ilikevwdiesel based his tool from.

Short story long... with the serpentine belt setup, you cannot run the A/C compressor AND the water pump with the serpentine belt. The only way it can be routed would rotate the water pump the wrong direction. With the serp belt setup, if there is A/C, then you need to run the water pump and power steering pump with the secondary v-belt. All of the Mk3 vehicles that came with A/C also came with power steering. The water pump is stationary, and the tensioning of that additional v-belt is done with the rotation of the power steering pump. If you are not running power steering but ARE running A/C then none of the stock water pump pulleys will work as none of them will provide a means to properly tension the belt for driving the engine critical water pump. It is a happy accident that the Quantum water pump is just the ticket. It is a two-part pulley that uses shims between the two parts for tensioning adjustment. It has the correct mounting hole layout and the correct offset for running on the v-belt pulley of the Mk3 serpentine belt setup. You will need both parts of the Mk3 crank pulley (ALH harmonic balancer will not work). Hope that explains it decently.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Picture is worth a thousand words right?

https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/aaz-1z-in-1982-westy.459751/
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Yeah, not really a fan of that approach for a couple reasons although it can obviously work. The reasons I would not go that route are the following.
It will give less consistent belt tension.
It places the engine-critical water pump on the same belt as the non-critical A/C and alternator accessories.
The ALH crank pulley is a smaller diameter so all of the accessories (most notably the water pump) will be run at a lower rpm.

In contrast, the quantum pulley allows a dedicated water pump belt which means that your serp belt can break, A/C clutch can fall to pieces, Alt pulley can fail, serp tensioner bearings can fail and shred the belt, etc... and you can still just motor on without causing any damage to your engine.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

jhax wrote:


Address any head issues (head gasket, inspect pre chambers for cracks etc)



My only advice would be to do this first before you send up your pump to Gilles or spend money on other things. My understanding is that there are no replacement pre chamber cups available. It may change the direction your project goes if you find something not so nice internally.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

I thought I would mention one more very significant downside to using the timing belt tensioner with the serp belt in the setup shown. I believe it will significantly increase the stress on the crank sprocket/crank by eliminating the dampening effect of the spring-loaded tensioner. I would not want to add to that stress even if the updated TDI d-sprocket is used.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
jhax wrote:


Address any head issues (head gasket, inspect pre chambers for cracks etc)



My only advice would be to do this first before you send up your pump to Gilles or spend money on other things. My understanding is that there are no replacement pre chamber cups available. It may change the direction your project goes if you find something not so nice internally.


You can buy new aftermarket heads Wink
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Refreshing Otto (Imported T3 1.6 JX TD) Reply with quote

Waldo,

When you say both parts of the AHU/1Z crank pulley are you referring to the crank sprocket and the harmonic balancer?

Also, I may be in luck with the water pump tensioner. According to this bentley page 62, http://syncro.org/Files/Bentley_Manual.pdf, it looks like I already have the shim tensioning water pump pulley that is being referred to. Is that correct? Looks the same as the quantum pulley system https://www.jimellisvwparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?...eLine=7986

Thank you,
Jusitn
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