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lnrbry
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMan wrote:
Hey guys i got a question. So i'm 15 and i have this

http://www.autotoolworld.com/Sharpe-Manufacturing-5250-PAI-Gun-Cobalt-PG-90_p_99761.html

and a decent compressor. my buddy has a paint booth and i have a place to spray primer/paint.... i am going to do the body work on my bus but i'm sketched out about doin the paint.... some people say its reallllly hard and some people says its not... Do you guys think its waste of time for me do my paint? or should i just pay someone to do it, but im on a tight budget thats why i'm asking.? I have worked with spray guns before keep that in mind.... Thanks in advance ! Very Happy


well, do you know the tip size on the gun? primer/sealer and topcoats (color/ clearcoat) all have different consistencies and usually use different tips. Also this is a non HVLP gun which will need a practice to lay down a good coat.(it spits out the paint a little slower.) Practice, practice, practice on small pieces till you get the hang of it. There is enough information on the interweb to really let you know how to use the gun, mix the paints, and finally color sand it all out.

being 15 doesn't change anything (other than you have lots more time left than some of us to enjoy the hobby)

The surface prep and the final color sand will make or break your paint job. so yes you can do it, BUT expect to make some mistakes along the way. (which can all be fixed by HARD WORK)

so in a nutshell,
1. your buddy has a booth. He SHOULD have experience with painting/ prepping/ final color sand/ buff. if he is willing to let you shoot in his booth he will also help you along the way.
2. Money being tight then yes, you should paint it yourself. BUT get a quote or two to really see what you are getting into. Most shops put a lot of work in to paint a car. So expect to have to learn as much as you can while practicing on smaller pieces. Start with something that is NOT your VW. Try paining your computer case. It will be the same process. Then you will be able to see if you are up for doing a whole car!
3. Whatever you end up doing, take PRIDE in it. It isn't really hard it just takes a LOT of time and effort. If it was me doing a bus, I would probably set aside 3 weeks to get the body ready, 2 days to shoot and then as long as I could to colorsand/buff. (this DOES NOT take into account drying/ hardening times which will differ according to your paints. And yes, those would be full 8 hour days of work for me)

use the search on youtube, watch as many body prep vids as you can and make your buddy hate you for asking lots of questions. and above all good luck.

P.S. if you don't take pics of your progress and post them here in a build thread, may you be forever haunted with people calling you a hippy.
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lnrbry
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt, AWESOME thread. Great use of the dollies and I am envious that you have that stud welder. Right now I am debating getting a shrinking disc. It goes on your grinder and is just a flat piece of stainless steel. You run it on the panel till it heats up (and it only heats up the high spots) then you quench the area with a wet rag. once the water hits the high spots it "shrinks" them down and then you can hammer and dolly it till it is PERFECT! The videos I have seen of their use has just really blown my mind. http://tinyurl.com/shrinkingdiscvids also there are a few things I too would like to share on your topic. hope you don't mind. Smile

Hammers and dollies.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is a set from the inexpensive tool company (on sale right now for $20) however these need some work before you use them. Using progressively finer grits of wet and dry sandpaper finish each piece until they are smooth as glass. Give them a polish if you have a wheel to do it. Or just take them into the house one at a time and polish them while you are watching tv with some neverdull or something that you prefer. The smoother the tools, the better the bumping (any imperfections in the tools will be transferred over to your sheet metal ) here is one that is polished already
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

A GREAT guide to using these tools is called "The key to metal bumping" and is available almost anywhere (including the library)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Get an old hood or fender and go to town! if you use these tools correctly then you "should" be able to use almost no bondo. (well a skim so that you can get it all nice and mirror like)

BTW sorry to just throw a bunch of pics up from manufacturers. But my camera is dead and I never thought to take pics of my dollies after I brought them home from HF and smoothed them out.
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael in Germany is using lead and a cheese grater for beautiful bodywork on his VelvetSquare!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5077115#5077115
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Matt K.
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Joined: January 14, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lnrbry wrote:
Matt, AWESOME thread. Great use of the dollies and I am envious that you have that stud welder. Right now I am debating getting a shrinking disc. It goes on your grinder and is just a flat piece of stainless steel. You run it on the panel till it heats up (and it only heats up the high spots) then you quench the area with a wet rag. once the water hits the high spots it "shrinks" them down and then you can hammer and dolly it till it is PERFECT! The videos I have seen of their use has just really blown my mind. http://tinyurl.com/shrinkingdiscvids also there are a few things I too would like to share on your topic. hope you don't mind. Smile

Hammers and dollies.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is a set from the inexpensive tool company (on sale right now for $20) however these need some work before you use them. Using progressively finer grits of wet and dry sandpaper finish each piece until they are smooth as glass. Give them a polish if you have a wheel to do it. Or just take them into the house one at a time and polish them while you are watching tv with some neverdull or something that you prefer. The smoother the tools, the better the bumping (any imperfections in the tools will be transferred over to your sheet metal ) here is one that is polished already
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

A GREAT guide to using these tools is called "The key to metal bumping" and is available almost anywhere (including the library)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Get an old hood or fender and go to town! if you use these tools correctly then you "should" be able to use almost no bondo. (well a skim so that you can get it all nice and mirror like)

BTW sorry to just throw a bunch of pics up from manufacturers. But my camera is dead and I never thought to take pics of my dollies after I brought them home from HF and smoothed them out.


I have seen a similiar disc in action.....it really works wonders.
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This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrMan wrote:
Hey guys i got a question. So i'm 15 and i have this

http://www.autotoolworld.com/Sharpe-Manufacturing-5250-PAI-Gun-Cobalt-PG-90_p_99761.html

and a decent compressor. my buddy has a paint booth and i have a place to spray primer/paint.... i am going to do the body work on my bus but i'm sketched out about doin the paint.... some people say its reallllly hard and some people says its not... Do you guys think its waste of time for me do my paint? or should i just pay someone to do it, but im on a tight budget thats why i'm asking.? I have worked with spray guns before keep that in mind.... Thanks in advance ! Very Happy

Never be afraid of trying something yourself....realistically painting is not hard....just an aquired technique and some basic knowledge.....i remember the first truck i ever painted.....it made a Maaco job look like a Ferrari...so go for it and when you need help....ask plenty of questions.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vinnems wrote:
Hey Matt. Going back to the beginning here, as I'll be doing some stripping to bare metal. You didn't really explain the process back then, and forgive me if you did later, but how did you use the three tools you had pictures to get to bare metal? Did you wire wheel, then sand it smooth with the discs? Did you just wire wheel?
Well there are several methods to achieve bare metal....the one i use (when i dont have something media blasted) is my buffer method. I change the pad on my buffer to a pad that will accept velcro style sandpaper preferably 36 or 80 grit depending on what i am stripping.

I start out slow (about 1500rpm).....i strip some off being careful not to stay in one spot too long as too not heat the metal too hot....its an aquired talent so take your time to get used to how it works.
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This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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lnrbry
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the surefire way to get "bare metal" for me has always been aircraft remover. (always wondered about that name.why wouldn't they just call it aircraft paint stripper or does this thing really make aircraft disappear?) After you apply it wait about 10 minutes and then just scrape the goo off and you have clean metal. use all the proper safety equipment and just let it sit. it works wonders on multiple layers of paint!
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girlnouveau
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a random welding/body work question.


I haven't done any welding yet but I'm buying a Hobart here in the next month or so. In the meantime over winter I've read the Haynes MIG welding book, bumping metal book, random bodywork books, and every sticky post in this forum. It's no replacement for experience, but better than nothing until I get the machine.

I have never done any work on cars till I got my bug two years ago. I bought several "Bug Me" videos and regard them pretty highly since I've been able to accomplish alot with no experience after following their advice.

So I'm sitting here watching the heater channel one I think it is, and rick Higgins is putting a lower rear QP patch panel on a yellow convertible. They go over some different welds and such, fine.....and then Rick says it's ready for filler and paint!

First of all....wouldn't you want to butt weld it and not lap weld a lower panel in? I thought vibration in the car would make a lap weld with crappy fille show up eventually. And IF you lap weld it....would you really just tack it every few inches and leave it like that? I understand that when you put in new pans per the Bug Me video he explains why you don't run a full weld bead around the whole thing.

Seems to me like, even if you can't run a continuous bead without warping the outer body panel, you'd make several tack/spot welds then grind, then tack, then grind until the seam was totally welded. In either case I'd think you'd use seam sealer before filler?! I mean, right? Not only could rust form between the lap welds anyway, they didn't even make an effort to seal the seam either by a continuous weld or seam sealer. Won't the filler soak up water and create one hell of a problem later on?

I never though Rick Higgins did stuff half-assed! I know there's lots of welding and body work schools of thought out there but after reading a stack of manuals, and following posts around here....I would have NEVER tackled THAT project the way he did.

What he did seemed contrary to everything I've learned so far and was wondering if someone could explain to me why exactly that was wrong or right about what he did.
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TonysGarage
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i personally dont ever lap weld anything--but a lot of people do becuase its much easier and requires less time and skill.

i say but joints are the best--and i always fully weld all the way around unless its 100% impossible. but yes you cannot just flip the welder on and run a bead without stopping without warping the panel real bad. But if you go slow, have good control of your welder, watch the panel--you can easily weld the entire joint--then go back and polish off or grind the welds down---be careful as you can also warp the panel doing this too.

good choice with a hobart--they're made by miller, sell for a very fair price and are GREAT for beginners.
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girlnouveau
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Rick Higgins Ace mechanic, crap body man? LOL
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TonysGarage
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not gonna talk crap on some guy i dont know personally....make your own decisions.

i do things one way--doesnt mean everyone does them that way
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girlnouveau
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awe now, I was totally kidding about Rick!

It was just surprising how everyone backs his mechanical advice in the videos, but then for body work he basically went TACK TACK TACK........FILLER...........


Made me a little nervous because I never really questioned any of his procedures before and I don't want to do anything half way on my car when the time comes.
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never been a fan of just tack welding the sheetmetal and then putting filler over the top of that. Metal expands and contracts and if the seam is not welded totally it moves slightly under the filler and could cause it to crack.....the best ways is to try to weld up the seam between the two pieces solid.
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This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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girlnouveau
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I like to double check my homework before I go cut up my car Wink
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TinCanFab
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Where can one find Duraglass? Reply with quote

Bus R Us wrote:
Hi, cruised all the auto parts stores in town. No one has heard of duraglass. Everyone's got plenty of bondo though.

I was originally planning on using Por 15 on the window frames. I'm new at this.

You said filler needs to be applied on bare metal.

Por 15 needs to be appplied directly on rust.

What should I do first?

Where can I get duraglass?

Thanks,
Jacques



I'm using some of the Duraglass for a small part of my single cab project. If you are having a hard time finding it, go to a NAPA.

Gallon part #-765-3043
Quart #- 765-3044

If they don't have it in the store, they should be able to get it very quickly for no freight charge at their local warehouse.
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since i have moved to a different shop this owner told me to bring in whatever i want to work on.......so finally we have a 69 Bug Vert to do a complete on................i will show how we take this car from garage wreck to clean daily driver......as soon as it gets here we will get started!
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This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Well, here she is.....a 69 Vert. Its not horrible but it does need a little love. Amazingly it has very little rust.....but it has a few bumps and bruises to straighten out.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The customer brought me four german fenders that were rattle can primed....so we stripped them to bare metal using 80 grit on a D.A. sander. He also wanted to shave the front turn signals and the rear exhaust cut outs.SPECIAL NOTE: This process is for the beginner in mind and what works the easiest for people with limited knowledge.

So basically i cut a small pattern from cardboard of the shape i want and then transfer that shape to a piece of sheet metal and cut it out using a cut off wheel on a die grinder. This shape will cover all the little holes plus the large hole in one shot. Obviously if you have welding skills you could just weld the small holes and cut a smaller piece just for the larger hole.....But this is for the novice.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



So i clean the bare metal piece and grind away the paint where i am going the weld. Then i spray a couple of coats of Copperweld( a specialty coating that prevents rust but you can weld through it) on the fender side of the piece and tack weld the piece to the bottom of the fender.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Then i flip the fender over and weld up the holes. when i weld this up i have a wet rag handy. I weld 3-4 tacks then take the wet rag and cool off the weld to keep the fender from warping....I repeat the process until all the holes are welded up. Then i use my angle grinder with a 40 grit disc and grind down the welds.....i grind a little bit then take my wet rag and cool down the fender....again so i can keep the warpage to a minimum.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So before i add any filler to the top of the fender i flip the fender over and finish the bottom. I smooth up the welds and add a couple of coats of Rattle can etch primer then a couple of coats of Rustoleum to all of the bare metal.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then i use this 3M brushable seam sealer and completely seal around the outside edge and over the top so it will be water tight.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I really push in the sealer to make sure that piece is completly sealed.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then once the sealer is dry i will re undercoat for complete protection.Once the car is painted i will tape off the lips of the fender and completely redo the undercoating......this was just a demo.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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Matt K.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Anytime i am working on a part i always look it over for cracks, rust etc. The fenders sometimes crack over time, so i make sure all of the fabrication/welding is done before any primer is sprayed.

This lower curved edge of the fender was actually missing a piece. Two cracks had led to the piece falling out. So basically i made a new piece,welded it in and smoothed it out. I took a small round file and made the curve again. I also unplugged the drain holes in the bottom of the fender as they had body filler in them.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)
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