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sharkskinman Lateral Lunatic

Joined: April 26, 2006 Posts: 4044 Location: Deep In My Own Psyche
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Ok
So with Widened or shortened beam!
And with the wheels (toe in) correct between each other
How do you make sure the Wheels are Straight to the Car/Beam
And can You use a Simple Magnetic Angle Finder for the Castor _________________ 74 Mexi Swamp Thing. 70 square volksrod (Swamp Rat)..65 C10
Me of Course wrote: |
Extremity is relative to how far your willing to jump |
Ward Cleaver wrote: |
You ever try a pink golf ball, Wally? Why, the wind shear alone on a pink golf ball can take the head off a 90-pound midget at over 300 yards |
PS4 "NKOGNEATO" |
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Ian Samba Moderator

Joined: August 28, 2002 Posts: 4958 Location: 713
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Take both front wheels off and measure their offset or look for an ET stamp on the back side. _________________ All your Buses are belong to us.
Love and good roads!
IN LOVING MEMORY OF ROB CRESS 1968-2012 & KEN CRIMMINS 1957-2024 |
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SandwichKing Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2021 Posts: 2 Location: Lake Jackson, TX
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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I'm new to this so I hope I'm doing this correctly. If not I'm sure someone will point it out. Oh well, here goes.
I picked up a 1971 Super Beetle back in January. Absolutely love it. First one I've bought.
I replaced all the steering linkage ie. tie rods and ends, center link, and steering damper and bushing and new ball joints. Swapped drums for disc up front and added adjustable struts to lower it 1.5 - 2 inches.
Took it to get it aligned and now the end of the bolt for the ball joint grinds on the inside of the right wheel when making a sharp right turn. Took it back to shop and was told the right wheel has a different backset than the others and/or the wheel is warped.
Any suggestions? |
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Eskamobob1 Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2016 Posts: 541 Location: South OC SoCal
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2021 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Did I read this right that a 74 standard is speced with positive camber in the front? _________________ '74 - front disks/lots more work to do |
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AlmostHeavenWV_VW Samba Member

Joined: October 12, 2017 Posts: 1969 Location: WV
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Likely not the original photos in the beginning of this thread,but here's a post from Glenn
Glenn wrote: |
Print this since I bet not many shops have the specs.
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_________________ 1973 Standard Beetle
1600DP AK case
Solex 34PICT3 Carb
Bosch DVDA 205AJ Distributor |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4277 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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tzepesh wrote: |
I totally agree to the importance of well-done alignment. Surprisingly, the database of my local alignment shop has the correct data for VW 1303 (I printed the specs from my book).
However, the reason for my question is different: I have Porsche 944 turbo brakes and Kerscher struts, and I am trying to determine the correct offset for the wheels in order to obtain a scrub area similar to stock. |
I have made very approximate measurements of scrub, by spreading chalk on a dark floor, rolling on to it, and turning the steering from lock to lock. You can gently roll back the wheel, and see the center of the swirl, on the tire and on the ground.
In any case, even if it not accurate, you can see if it's centered on the tire, and, if not, to which side it's offset.
I don't know how much Kersher struts or 944 brakes move stuff, but I know their brakes increase the track by 8 mm, 4 per side. I expect the 944 is even more.
Damn, I'd love to try a beetle with 944T brakes...they worked so great on a much heavier car, I can't imagine on a light beetle...... . |
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Floating VW Samba Member

Joined: April 28, 2015 Posts: 1614 Location: The South Zone
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Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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meridianVW wrote: |
SAI in basic terms is the angle formed by a line drawn through the suspension pivot points and true vertical. To SAI add the camber angle and that yields Included Angle. . . |
Thanks for posting this! For years and years I have been using the term "Scrub Angle", when I really meant to say "Included Angle".
Old dog, new trick! _________________ "It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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Floating VW Samba Member

Joined: April 28, 2015 Posts: 1614 Location: The South Zone
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Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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tzepesh wrote: |
Does anybody have the original pics to re-upload them? |
Have you tried e-mailing the guy who originally posted them? Here's his email (from page 1):
dan macmillan wrote: |
If anyone wants a bigger, clearer scan, email me at [email protected] subject ALIGNMENT SPECS |
Here are the specs for a '70 to '79 Type 1 Beetle, from my Bentley service manual (I think they're the same for the Karmann Ghia, but I'm not 100% on that):
Personally, I don't follow these specs to the letter. I was going to post a pic of my own specs, but I see I already did that two years ago back on page 2 (man, how time flies!). I like a bit more negative camber on the front than they want in the manual. The manual states +45' to +15' (+0.75° to +0.25°) as the acceptable range, which is all positive camber. I run the maximum negative camber possible using the stock adjuster: -32' (-0.54°), for better cornering. I run just under negative 1° 30' (1.5°) camber in the back, which is still within the limit, but it's about as far negative as the specs allow.
I also like a fuzz more negative toe (toe out) in the rear tires than the manual calls for. I have mine set at -18' (-0.3°) toe out. I feel this better counteracts the camber thrust from the high negative camber, and also helps promote oversteer, which, in my opinion, is the same thing as reducing understeer- a common malady in rear-engined vehicles. But probably the main reason is that I'm too lazy to crawl under the car and loosen up all the bolts in the spring arms just to take out 3' of toe!
The manual states to set toe with a full gas tank and the car unladen, but I like to put 100 pounds in the driver's seat as well, to better simulate how the car actually sits when I'm driving it (I weigh more than 100 pounds, by the way; I just don't want to ruin my nice upholstery with too many free weights!).
At any rate, the car feels very stable in a straight line, corners well and shows very little wear on the tires with the specs I run on my machine, in case anyone has a similarly modified suspension and wants to copy them. _________________ "It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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tzepesh Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2003 Posts: 816 Location: Romania
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Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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I totally agree to the importance of well-done alignment. Surprisingly, the database of my local alignment shop has the correct data for VW 1303 (I printed the specs from my book).
However, the reason for my question is different: I have Porsche 944 turbo brakes and Kerscher struts, and I am trying to determine the correct offset for the wheels in order to obtain a scrub area similar to stock. _________________ '74 1303S, L98B Viperngrun (extra glitter), German Look
'64 1200, Sea Blue, under restoration |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4277 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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It was mentioned that the alignment isn't that crucial because it's a beetle...
I disagree. If you look at the alignment range for the beetle is waay more exacting than the Golf. Those light front wheels need more attention, and the beetle's suspension is less forgiving for bad alignments.
When the last alignment guy told me he couldn't correct front camber (because he didn't know about the upper eccentric 36 mm cone, I just gave up on the idea of anyone knowing how to do it correctly.
And I would do everything to make it easy for them ( cleaned, all ball-joint threads cleaned and greased, steering box centered with steering wheel, provide them with specs), and yet, still they would screw it up.
I gave up. I'll pay for alignments, but I won't pay someone to DO them anymore.
This is the arrangement I have worked out with the local alignment shop's boss: I pay you a full alignment (130$ for me, instead of 160$ for customer), and you do nothing (except take the cash), and none of your guys have to lift a finger or waste a second. In exchange, I come at the end of the work day, and I can use the lift and alignment machine to do my own alignment, and take the time to do it right (the more wine you bring, the longer you have...). Its a modern electronic machine, no wires, and I just use it as a measuring tool just work with the readout. If they program in an alignment from the databank, it's sure to be wrong and get things mixed up...1300 for 1302, transporter for baywindow, etc... type 3...type what? Those machines just have short memories!
That way I can do it right, take my time, and do things like getting the rear perfect with the "unbolt spring-plate bolts and raise or lower arm before re-tightening" technique. No alignment guy is going to do that.
A buddy has one of those roll-over plates which tells you toe. It's good for little stuff where you know the rest is good, like just changing a steering ball-joint.
Good luck to all for getting what you want out of an alignment shop. |
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shakers73 Samba Member

Joined: June 14, 2011 Posts: 820 Location: Saltville, Va
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Can't see photos. Getting error code 502. _________________ shakers73
'74 Super Beetle
'67 Beetle
Where there is no vision, the people perish. |
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meridianVW Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2010 Posts: 2 Location: Meridian Idaho
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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This is all truly great information and I have a couple of comments.
I agree with the statement about ride height in regards to factory alignment specifications but as we all know we modify ride height regularly in our hobby.
These modified suspensions still need to be aligned and factory specs occasionally need to be modified.
SAI in basic terms is the angle formed by a line drawn through the suspension pivot points and true vertical. To SAI add the camber angle and that yields Included Angle. These 2 angles are very important for collision diagnosis.
I spent 25 years specializing in suspensions, steering and alignments and my recommendations would be to talk to the technician and you should quickly be able to determine if he’s the right guy to align your vehicle.
I’ve used bubble gauges, string system alignment machines and all the way to the new camera systems.
I stopped turning a wrench about 10 years ago and feel your pain in locating a sutible technician.
Awhile back I found a great deal on a Hunter alignment system that I couldn’t pass up. I figure it will take maybe 10-12 alignments to break even.
In the attached lower picture I would need to adjust the rear ride height to correct the rear camber angle.
I believe the tire wear will be minimal if any.
I’ll probably just lower the front!
Last edited by meridianVW on Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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tzepesh Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2003 Posts: 816 Location: Romania
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Does anybody have the original pics to re-upload them? _________________ '74 1303S, L98B Viperngrun (extra glitter), German Look
'64 1200, Sea Blue, under restoration |
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Goshen Samba Member

Joined: April 03, 2012 Posts: 833 Location: Miami. FL & Cartagena
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Boosten Ya(Josh) Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2016 Posts: 173 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Thank you for this info _________________ 07' Ford Ranger - New DD.
71' Super beetle - prostreet trans 4.10 gear, 1641cc with dual 40 IDFs, W110, and a 1-1/2qt deep oil pan.
Needs: cage, seats, harnesses, better suspension, new wheels, and rear disc brakes.
Almost there.... |
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TX-73 Samba Member

Joined: January 04, 2013 Posts: 1133 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Floating VW wrote: |
The last time I took my machine in for a "professional" alignment was back in 1997, right before the first of many cross-country roadtrips. I watched the guy put the car on the rack, hook up the machine, look in vain for the specs in the computer, take the car back off the rack without turning a single nut or bolt, and go for a spin around the block. When he came back he said, "Yep, alignment's good." And then he charged me $25. So now I do my own 4-wheel alignments with a string line, plumb bob, angle gauge and tape measure, and it never ceases to amaze me how simple it is to do.
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Agree, I just did this as well. _________________ My 1973 Standard Beetle Build SOLD
Click to view image |
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Floating VW Samba Member

Joined: April 28, 2015 Posts: 1614 Location: The South Zone
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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The last time I took my machine in for a "professional" alignment was back in 1997, right before the first of many cross-country roadtrips. I watched the guy put the car on the rack, hook up the machine, look in vain for the specs in the computer, take the car back off the rack without turning a single nut or bolt, and go for a spin around the block. When he came back he said, "Yep, alignment's good." And then he charged me $25. So now I do my own 4-wheel alignments with a string line, plumb bob, angle gauge and tape measure, and it never ceases to amaze me how simple it is to do.
For what it's worth, if anybody wants to have an idea of what the SAI and scrub radius of a late model, Type 1 standard Beetle is, here is a little illustration of the current specs on my machine:
Note 1: I use the terms "scrub angle" and "scrub area" for Steering Axis Inclination and Scrub Radius, which might not be technically correct, but there you go.
Note 2: I have drop-spindles with a disc brake conversion, which kicks the track width out by about a quarter inch per wheel, the wheels are about one inch smaller in diameter than stock (24" as opposed to 25"), and I also have the front camber adjusted for max negative, all of which will affect SAI and scrub radius accordingly.
_________________ "It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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garyt Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 763 Location: Burgundy
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Thanks, am going through this at the moment, very useful. |
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Gristle808 Samba Member

Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 4 Location: Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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This thread not only helped me but also teached me somthin... LOL  |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer

Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11125 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Its easy to punch any vehicle specs into most modern alignment machines.
I have my own saved resource library I've stored on ours I access. If its not listed... I create my own..
The problem.. most tire shop techs.. only know... on and off.. and in the red or in the green.
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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