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dan macmillan Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003 Posts: 3110 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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JasonBaker wrote: |
Dan, I was told that I needed a stobe alignment on my 73 super. Is this correct? |
Never in my years have I heard of a STOBE alognment. You need a total 4 wheel alignment. _________________ Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone |
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JasonBaker Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2010 Posts: 1642 Location: Cleveland, TN
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Opps I meant "strobe aligned" Anyway it sounds like someone blew smoke up my butt. That's why I wanted to ask you specifically. A guy @ firestone in chattanooga, tn told me that. I called firestone because I saw where someone used firestone for a lifetime alignment at a set rate. I am in the process of a complete front end rebuild less steering box, but including camber+ kit from topline and maxx strut and will need the alignment afterwards. I think after the springs settle and bushings seat I will need to re-check the alignment.
I can't find anyone locally to align the damn thing. They only want to adjust toe-in.
Thanks for the reply. |
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dan macmillan Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003 Posts: 3110 Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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JasonBaker wrote: |
Opps I meant "strobe aligned" Anyway it sounds like someone blew smoke up my butt. That's why I wanted to ask you specifically. A guy @ firestone in chattanooga, tn told me that. I called firestone because I saw where someone used firestone for a lifetime alignment at a set rate. I am in the process of a complete front end rebuild less steering box, but including camber+ kit from topline and maxx strut and will need the alignment afterwards. I think after the springs settle and bushings seat I will need to re-check the alignment.
I can't find anyone locally to align the damn thing. They only want to adjust toe-in.
Thanks for the reply. |
Any shop with a modern computerized aligner can do a total 4 wheel alignment. In fact if they are able to set toe without using a measuring tape they can do an alignment. THe fact that you are installing the camber kit will make it even easier for them to do it. I recommend you get the toe close with a measuring tape {1/8 inch closer at the front of the wheels than at the back of the front wheels} and drive it for a few days to help the springs settle. Also make sure you free up and clean the threads on the tie rods to make adjustment easy and save you dollars at the alignment shop.
Most important...GET A BEFORE AND AFTER PRINTOUT OF THE ALIGNMENT SETTINGS. _________________ Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone |
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JasonBaker Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2010 Posts: 1642 Location: Cleveland, TN
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Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:26 am Post subject: |
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I will ask for the "before and after", I have seen you recommend that others.
I completely stripped, primed, painted and used thread cleaning taps on the tie-rod's(everything else too). Control arms looked awful, even painted them(I know that's a waste of time, but I was waiting for parts to come in) New ball joints and tie-rods end all the way around. In fact I need to pick up another center tie-rod from a locall vw shop. The first one just didn't fit in the pitman arm and the idler arm correctly. At first, I thought it was because I changed over to the metal idler arm bushing and used the hack saw and bench vice method for installation and removal. But the old center tie-rod wiggles a little, but fit right in. I would've had to force it in, so I took it back. Angle looked funny.
Anyway
Thanks again |
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cookrw Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2009 Posts: 873 Location: Augusta, KY
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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So, if alignment should not be set (or is useless) if the ride height is not correct, are all of us with sagging rear ends on our Supers out of luck? _________________ '71 Super 'Vert
'84 Vanagon GL (w/ Sunroof!)
'96 Jeep Cherokee |
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Bruce Berman Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2004 Posts: 148 Location: Long Island, NY, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know if the front wheel toe-in specs provided in the Hunter documentation at the beginning of this thread (for the Type 1 1960 thru 1968 cars) are also applicable to a 1957 sedan/Beetle?
I think the toe-in spec for the earlier cars may be a little less, perhaps on the order of 1 to 3 MM, but I am not sure of this.
Thanks,
Bruce _________________ Factory original 1957 Type 1 Deluxe Sedan, with 13,000 miles. I purchased her from the estate of the original owner in 1978. Color: L324 Polar Silver, with light beige leatherette interior, dealer-installed Dehne fuel gauge and Motorola Volumatic radio. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Bruce Berman wrote: |
Does anyone know if the front wheel toe-in specs provided in the Hunter documentation at the beginning of this thread (for the Type 1 1960 thru 1968 cars) are also applicable to a 1957 sedan/Beetle?
I think the toe-in spec for the earlier cars may be a little less, perhaps on the order of 1 to 3 MM, but I am not sure of this.
Thanks,
Bruce |
Note increase change of Front Toe spec at chassis 1673351 (Oct 1957)
In reality.. a spec change and difference of 1.2-1.3 mm.... (10' angular minutes) is not going to make any real world of difference on most roads in these ole' tin beaters
_________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Bruce Berman Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2004 Posts: 148 Location: Long Island, NY, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Bruce Berman wrote: |
Does anyone know if the front wheel toe-in specs provided in the Hunter documentation at the beginning of this thread (for the Type 1 1960 thru 1968 cars) are also applicable to a 1957 sedan/Beetle?
I think the toe-in spec for the earlier cars may be a little less, perhaps on the order of 1 to 3 MM, but I am not sure of this.
Thanks,
Bruce |
Note increase change of Front Toe spec at chassis 1673351 (Oct 1957)
In reality.. a spec change and difference of 1.2-1.3 mm.... (10' angular minutes) is not going to make any real world of difference on most roads in these ole' tin beaters
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Wow, thanks very much for this information! You can't beat the original data from the VW factory for accuracy when it comes to this kind of thing.
Bruce _________________ Factory original 1957 Type 1 Deluxe Sedan, with 13,000 miles. I purchased her from the estate of the original owner in 1978. Color: L324 Polar Silver, with light beige leatherette interior, dealer-installed Dehne fuel gauge and Motorola Volumatic radio. |
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Bruce Berman Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2004 Posts: 148 Location: Long Island, NY, USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Bruce Berman wrote: |
Does anyone know if the front wheel toe-in specs provided in the Hunter documentation at the beginning of this thread (for the Type 1 1960 thru 1968 cars) are also applicable to a 1957 sedan/Beetle?
I think the toe-in spec for the earlier cars may be a little less, perhaps on the order of 1 to 3 MM, but I am not sure of this.
Thanks,
Bruce |
Note increase change of Front Toe spec at chassis 1673351 (Oct 1957)
In reality.. a spec change and difference of 1.2-1.3 mm.... (10' angular minutes) is not going to make any real world of difference on most roads in these ole' tin beaters
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I guess that if I present these toe-in specs for my car to the front-end alignment shop with their computerized wheel alignment equipment, they can align the front end properly?
I ask this as the factory alignment method entails the use of a special measuring bar, for measuring the front of the tire and the rear of the tire distances between the opposing tire, which when set to the spec, corresponds to the correct amount of toe-in. Then again, that was probably the only available procedure for adjusting toe-in, as there was no modern computerized wheel alignment equipment back in the 1950s.
Bruce _________________ Factory original 1957 Type 1 Deluxe Sedan, with 13,000 miles. I purchased her from the estate of the original owner in 1978. Color: L324 Polar Silver, with light beige leatherette interior, dealer-installed Dehne fuel gauge and Motorola Volumatic radio. |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Its a Volkswagen.. Not anything vehicularly exotic..
A modern alignment "machine" is more than adequate...
For that matter.. a plumb bob, a level, and a tape measure.. is more than adequate for an air cooled VW..
If an alignment shop cant align a Vw... they have no business in the alignment business...
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Molly1973 Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2012 Posts: 159
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:19 am Post subject: |
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This is a great resource! Thank you Dan! |
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daveark Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2010 Posts: 74 Location: Dallas/Fort Worth
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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This gift keeps on giving. National Tire & Battery specs now stop at 1980. At least they do for my local shop.
My '78 Bus thanks you. I thank you! |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11053 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Its easy to punch any vehicle specs into most modern alignment machines.
I have my own saved resource library I've stored on ours I access. If its not listed... I create my own..
The problem.. most tire shop techs.. only know... on and off.. and in the red or in the green.
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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Gristle808 Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 4 Location: Hawaii
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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This thread not only helped me but also teached me somthin... LOL |
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garyt Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2015 Posts: 763 Location: Burgundy
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Thanks, am going through this at the moment, very useful. |
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Floating VW Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2015 Posts: 1596 Location: The South Zone
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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The last time I took my machine in for a "professional" alignment was back in 1997, right before the first of many cross-country roadtrips. I watched the guy put the car on the rack, hook up the machine, look in vain for the specs in the computer, take the car back off the rack without turning a single nut or bolt, and go for a spin around the block. When he came back he said, "Yep, alignment's good." And then he charged me $25. So now I do my own 4-wheel alignments with a string line, plumb bob, angle gauge and tape measure, and it never ceases to amaze me how simple it is to do.
For what it's worth, if anybody wants to have an idea of what the SAI and scrub radius of a late model, Type 1 standard Beetle is, here is a little illustration of the current specs on my machine:
Note 1: I use the terms "scrub angle" and "scrub area" for Steering Axis Inclination and Scrub Radius, which might not be technically correct, but there you go.
Note 2: I have drop-spindles with a disc brake conversion, which kicks the track width out by about a quarter inch per wheel, the wheels are about one inch smaller in diameter than stock (24" as opposed to 25"), and I also have the front camber adjusted for max negative, all of which will affect SAI and scrub radius accordingly.
_________________ "It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works." |
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TX-73 Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2013 Posts: 1133 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Floating VW wrote: |
The last time I took my machine in for a "professional" alignment was back in 1997, right before the first of many cross-country roadtrips. I watched the guy put the car on the rack, hook up the machine, look in vain for the specs in the computer, take the car back off the rack without turning a single nut or bolt, and go for a spin around the block. When he came back he said, "Yep, alignment's good." And then he charged me $25. So now I do my own 4-wheel alignments with a string line, plumb bob, angle gauge and tape measure, and it never ceases to amaze me how simple it is to do.
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Agree, I just did this as well. _________________ My 1973 Standard Beetle Build SOLD
Click to view image |
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Boosten Ya(Josh) Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2016 Posts: 173 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Thank you for this info _________________ 07' Ford Ranger - New DD.
71' Super beetle - prostreet trans 4.10 gear, 1641cc with dual 40 IDFs, W110, and a 1-1/2qt deep oil pan.
Needs: cage, seats, harnesses, better suspension, new wheels, and rear disc brakes.
Almost there.... |
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Goshen Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2012 Posts: 833 Location: Miami. FL & Cartagena
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tzepesh Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2003 Posts: 724 Location: Romania
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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Alignment Specs for all ACVWs |
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Does anybody have the original pics to re-upload them? _________________ '74 1303S, L98B Viperngrun (extra glitter), German Look
'64 1200, Sea Blue, under restoration |
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