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HamburgerBrad
Je suis Napoléon!
Joined: February 21, 2003
Posts: 6957
Location: SoCal
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 Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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those headlights look like original european reflectors and bulbs. also, i'm not up on my early early vws, but that steering wheel looks like one used in standard (non-deluxe) beetles up through the late 50s?
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OGST | CU05 | OGJHC
1970 baja|1953 oval
Wanted: two beat up, ugly, curb rashed 6" phone dial wheels |
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melensdad
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Actual Kristi info |
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| caroth wrote: |
| Just wanted to correct the Kristi production numbers. There were only 110 Kristi KT-3 snow vehicles |
Hi Chris, thanks for the correction.
Seems there was a lot of confusion over the total production of the Kristi snowcats. I recalled you posted on my site numbers in the upper 300's, but this morning I see your site has the total production of all models at around 180 units.
I need to check with Mike, he picked up a trailer load of information from Kristi (Washington), when we talked a while back he was saying it was all from the daughter of an ex-airplane engineer??? I'll be out in Nevada in February and hope to see it and get some documents scanned for posting so they can be preserved.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
| those headlights look like original european reflectors and bulbs. also, i'm not up on my early early vws, but that steering wheel looks like one used in standard (non-deluxe) beetles up through the late 50s? |
The headlamps are the originals (and I did save the internal parts and may have them re-silvered someday?) As for the steering wheel, I've been told by a few different VW people that it is from a Schwimmwagen, I'm not an expert on that.
I keep all the original parts and preserve them in the event that I might want to take it back to original. However, with these snowcats the real value is in their ability to be safely used. There is essentially no collector value in these things, with the exception of some of those that can be documented to have been used in arctic or antarctic exploration. There is one Snow Trac that was used in a famous FBI manhunt. My Snow Trac was featured in a British TV Show called Salvage Squad.
Here are some Australian "A.N.A.R.E." Snow Tracs used in Antarctica that have a special forward sloped cabin. The photos were given to me by one of the guys who was down there for a year doing research. I'm not positive, but I believe that all the units with the forward sloped cabin were powered by Porsche 356 Industrial engines.
And this one was used at the Scott base in Antarctica and is now in a museum. This one has the traditional cabin arrangement and therefore is one of the VW powered units.
_________________
My Antique Snowcat pages are at http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/forumdisplay.php?f=65
I need information on Snow Trac, Kristi, Thiokol and old Tuckers.
If you like antique snowcats visit my discussions where they still live! |
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caroth
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2004
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, Mike is not telling the truth; he does not have the documentation from Washington. The equipment in the barn was, in fact, destroyed; the molds were never shipped from Colorado, the Washington molds stayed at the fiberglass supplier.
I am in contact with the Kristi - Washington owner, he is alive and doing well at the age of 82. He does not have much information on the early Kristi snow cats, but has shown an interest in talking with any current owners of the two remaining KT7s.
No more relying on other people for Kristi information. I have all of the Kristi - Colorado company records. I have the original log book that shows how many were built, when they were built, who they were sold to, etc. Company records tell the truth, the real history of Kristi will be found at http://KristiSnowCat.com , look for it 1st quarter 2007.
Information found in this post is copyrighted from ©KristiSnowCat.com.
Last edited by caroth on Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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melensdad
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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subybaja wrote:
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Very cool!
I see quite a few of those up here...at $10K, I don't have one, though.
I've always thought you could do some fun hi-po stuff with one- 091 and type IV? Maybe a TDI? |
The prices on the Snow Tracs seems to vary based on condition, but $10,000 is not an unreasonable price for a good condition unit that is mechanically sound. I've seen prices that are double that price but not sure if those actually sold. It is also common to see them listed in the $15,000 range.
I'm not sure the value of this one, it is easily over $20,000 and resides in British Columbia. The owners, Dawn & Rob Lowe did an amazing job on this unit. It is flawless. The transformation from rough to sweet can be seen at this link (you may have to register to see images) http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=1946
This entire unit was stripped down and rebuilt to better than new condition. The VW engine was also upgraded.
I know of several people who have converted their machines to other engines. None to a TDI. A few things that would worry me about diesel is that the fuel tends to gel at extreme temperatures. An anti-gel added to the fuel, such as Power Service, would probably be mandatory. The other issue with diesel would be cold starting issues as many owners of these vehicles take them to isolated cabins that don't have electricity so a block heater to keep the engine warm is not a possibility.
There is no question that a TDI would be a sweet engine, plenty of torque for the Snow Trac to climb hills, but I would not want a diesel in one of these IF it was to be used too far away from civilization.
_________________
My Antique Snowcat pages are at http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/forumdisplay.php?f=65
I need information on Snow Trac, Kristi, Thiokol and old Tuckers.
If you like antique snowcats visit my discussions where they still live! |
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KatGirl
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Hi melensdad and caroth ,
It is funny you mentioned Kristi Co . I had not thought of them in years .
My old boyfriend had a Kristi snow machine in the 70's when I lived in Washington .It was a square little boxy thing that broke down alot ! We snowshoed home more than once .
My husband and I currently own a Snow Trac snow machine here in Alaska and use it daily, in the Winter . I am checking here because we are in need of a new motor . Are replacement engines avalible from the company ?? We have been told they are a special VW engine and very expensive.
Thanking you in advance ,
Kat |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmm, are these the vehicles with the shift pattern upside down because the engine is mounted pulley-forward? Lots of fun switching back and forth between a car and a snowcat with that arrangement! |
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melensdad
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| KatGirl wrote: |
Hi melensdad and caroth ,
It is funny you mentioned Kristi Co . I had not thought of them in years .
My old boyfriend had a Kristi snow machine in the 70's when I lived in Washington .It was a square little boxy thing that broke down alot ! We snowshoed home more than once .
My husband and I currently own a Snow Trac snow machine here in Alaska and use it daily, in the Winter . I am checking here because we are in need of a new motor . Are replacement engines avalible from the company ?? We have been told they are a special VW engine and very expensive.
Thanking you in advance ,
Kat |
Hi Kat I suspect that other than Colorado, the only other state with any significant amount of snow this year is Alaska.
As for the engine, Snow Tracs use an industrial version of the basic flat 4. If your engine is damaged beyond a rebuild then I would suggest you simply replace it with regular Beetle engine or, if you want to go all out, you could put a Porsche 356 engine under the hood.
Finding an industrial engine for sale is pretty hard to do, but that said, there is currently a VW industrial for sale on eBay. It actually came out of a Kristi according to the auction listing. The only problem is that the seller requires that the engine be picked up. But I will warn you, the engine is missing parts and looks pretty rough from the photo.
As for your ex boyfriends snowcat, it is likely that it was a KT3. That model accounted for over 50% of the total production of Kristis with a production of 110 units (according to Chris). Now it might be possible that more were built than 110 because the company changed ownership and moved from Colorado to Washington and brochures from Washinton list the KT3 for sale so there may have been some produced there?
| GeorgeL wrote: |
| Hmmm, are these the vehicles with the shift pattern upside down because the engine is mounted pulley-forward? |
Yup, the shift pattern is backwards because the whole engine is mounted backwards. When I drive I can't rely on muscle memory for shifting! But once you get the hang of it it really is not too bad. And it is an absolute blast to drive 
_________________
My Antique Snowcat pages are at http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/forumdisplay.php?f=65
I need information on Snow Trac, Kristi, Thiokol and old Tuckers.
If you like antique snowcats visit my discussions where they still live! |
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KatGirl
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Melonsdad,
Sorry for the delay in returning your answer as we live quite far out and I only get to town once every couple of weeks . The little store only has the one computer and it is first come,first serve .
We did recieve the Service Manual disk on the SnowTrac in our mail .It looks like we have some options on the motor . My husband was very impressed with the disk.
That's quite a website you have.
While I am waiting on "hubby" to finish shopping I looked at your website and looked at the Kristi information and pictures . The Kristi Snow Cat my old boyfriend's family owned looked more like the KT4 model that is pictured , but it was all enclosed . I thought at first it was the KT7 that is being restored ,but then reading the article it does not sound like there are any more around . Someplace I have a old picture of all of us out playing in the snow with the Cat sitting in the background . If I can find it , I will be glad to send you a copy for your library.
Hubby's back and we got to head home ,
Kat |
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melensdad
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| KatGirl wrote: |
| The Kristi Snow Cat my old boyfriend's family owned looked more like the KT4 model that is pictured , but it was all enclosed |
Kat, less than 20 of the KT4 units were built, about 1/2 of the total production was fully enclosed, the remainder were open top and considered KT4a models with the "a" designating them as amphibious units. From the lack of sales it seems reasonable to conclude that the KT4 was simply just a commercial failure. Your experience with having to snowshoe home may be representative of the reason why so few of them sold.
What I can tell you is that I have a contact who is looking for a KT4, he currently has some KT3 units but wants a KT4. If there is anyway you might know were the grave of that old KT4 might be, I know someone who would consider buying it, or what is left of it.
BTW, thanks for the nice words about the website, it is the most active of the snowcat websites on the internet. We have several members who have Kristi machines and they really are technically interesting machines. The KT2 and KT3 are of interest to people here at the Samba because those two models are powered by VW (or Porsche) engines. The KT4 that you rode in/hiked away from was powered by a 6 cyl Chevy Corvair engine.
| KatGirl wrote: |
| that broke down alot ! We snowshoed home more than once |
Do you recall what part broke? Was it engine failure? Was it something with the complex hydraulics? Track failure, etc??? Was it the same failure each time (which would indicate a weak system) or was it something different each time (which might be related to operator misuse/error or maintenance, age, etc).
_________________
My Antique Snowcat pages are at http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/forumdisplay.php?f=65
I need information on Snow Trac, Kristi, Thiokol and old Tuckers.
If you like antique snowcats visit my discussions where they still live! |
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wyobuggy
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2005
Posts: 68
Location: Hawk Springs , Wyoming
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Well, I found my pictures. Of course I don't have a scanner!!!
The tracks were just as described. I rember thinking there were about 1000 bolts per side. I had a long chunk of conveyer belting that I was going to use. Nice thick 2or 3 ply stuff. Guess the cowboys had fun punching holes in it.
Actually, The leveling/ side hill feature worked pretty well. It was more of a comfort thing in my opinion. But it worked!! |
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melensdad
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 28
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| wyobuggy wrote: |
| The tracks were just as described. I rember thinking there were about 1000 bolts per side. I had a long chunk of conveyer belting that I was going to use. Nice thick 2or 3 ply stuff. Guess the cowboys had fun punching holes in it. |
I'm lucky, when I bought mine the tracks were in pretty good condition. But I don't look forward to the day that I have to replace all the belting. Conveyor belting would probably work, but there is specialized belting that is designed for the water, temperature and sunlight exposure these snowcats have to deal with so I suspect that conveyor belting would not last as long as specialized belting. Still, it would probably be a lot more economical to use conveyor belting!!!
| wyobuggy wrote: |
| The leveling/ side hill feature worked pretty well. It was more of a comfort thing in my opinion. But it worked!! |
I know of a guy who still uses a KT3 and says he likes the adjustable tracks for cross slope work. Given that the Kristi track design does not include any right angle pieces to prevent lateral sliding, they needed to develop something to compensate. Most other snowcats have a right angle component built into their track design, it has part of the grouser facing the side slope so it prevents (or at least reduce) side slippage. It is very cost effective and it works. I don't know if the Kristi design is more effective but I suspect that it is not because nobody else emulated that adjustable track design or even anything remotely similar. And in reality it would cost a lot more to achieve a similar result. Why waste the money for costly hydraulics when a simple adaptation of the track's grousers will prevent side slippage?
As for the comfort issue you bring up, I suppose that could be a big reason  The Kristi KT2 and KT3 used simple bench seats for the driver so the driver might slide sideways on a cross slope? Most other snowcats I know of have the driver in a bucket seat with a seat belt. I'm not sure I would want to slide to the far side of the cabin while trying to operate my snowcat on a cross slope so that might be another reason for the adjustable tracks on the Kristi.
_________________
My Antique Snowcat pages are at http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/forumdisplay.php?f=65
I need information on Snow Trac, Kristi, Thiokol and old Tuckers.
If you like antique snowcats visit my discussions where they still live! |
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onlyn8v
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Terryville, NY
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Sorry to dig this up but I was at that show.... Hey Glenn, do you remember what that guy was selling that for? |
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Phoxxanator
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2010
Posts: 112
Location: Arrowsic, ME
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:37 am Post subject: |
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This is a little off-topic, but I want to put these on the back of my Baja, skis on the front, and turn it into a giant snowmobile:
http://www.mattracks.com/
seems like a much easier way of getting a VW into the snow than trying to find the very cool, but harder to come by, snow trac. |
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birddog1148
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 921
Location: Sandusky Ohio at my Brewery playing with cars.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Phoxxanator wrote: |
This is a little off-topic, but I want to put these on the back of my Baja, skis on the front, and turn it into a giant snowmobile:
http://www.mattracks.com/
seems like a much easier way of getting a VW into the snow than trying to find the very cool, but harder to come by, snow trac. |
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=854333
I like the Idea of a baja/snowmobile here is a thread on building them, the mattracks type tracks.
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'69 Baja, Crusty 62 bug
I Got Your Jeep Thing! Now It Hurts When I pee.
Cigarettes are like squirrels, they are both harmless until you put one in your mouth and light it on fire. |
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bajaherbie
Samba Sooner
Joined: November 27, 2003
Posts: 2985
Location: altus, oklahoma
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:56 am Post subject: |
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not vw powered by very cool.... saw this at red river NM last week, its a late 50's Tucker snow cat- couldn't tell what it was powered by though. Red River opened for skiing in 1959, its been here most of its life i suspect.
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McVanagon
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern part of the Virginia
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bajamike560
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2009
Posts: 544
Location: Vancouver WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Great to read up on this.
I have pix I need to scan of a baja with trax and skis on it.
Mike |
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Phoxxanator
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2010
Posts: 112
Location: Arrowsic, ME
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| bajamike560 wrote: |
Great to read up on this.
I have pix I need to scan of a baja with trax and skis on it.
Mike |
Please do!
That's something I've been thinking about doing for several years! |
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bajamike560
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2009
Posts: 544
Location: Vancouver WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Phoxxanator wrote: |
| bajamike560 wrote: |
Great to read up on this.
I have pix I need to scan of a baja with trax and skis on it.
Mike |
Please do!
That's something I've been thinking about doing for several years! |
Wife has to help me with this, she has a new kodak scan/printer.
I will see what I (she) can do. BUMP the thread to remind me if no reply in a couple of days, I have sumtimers most of the time........
Mike |
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BajaCowboy
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Ashland Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:06 am Post subject: |
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I've also been following that thread and am in process of building a set for my baja. It's been a slow build for me as time and money haven't been coming together lately. I'll be incorporating snowmobile runners and a bolt on VW wheel. I'll also be using 121" camoplast tracks as they were used and cheap off Ebay. Ski's will strap on the front tires.
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Chuck
Ashland, Oregon |
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