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Fuel injection relief here!
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
blues90 wrote:
Donnie strickland wrote:
Here you go Ray:


I noticed that on the two sets of Bosch wires I got . One set was in the 80's and one 2 years ago and noticed the dist cap boot is 90 degree yet the wire is straight . They work fine yet when new are a PITA to fit . The coil wire is carbon fiber yet the plug wires are stranded wire with the resister in the plug end.


Yep...and that is exactly what I was getting at by asking Donnie if the wires he is using are "REALLY" 90* wire fittings...or just forcing a straight wire through a 90* like you are describing with your Bosch wires.

I hated those when I found that. Yes...when brand new they fit just fine. First time you have to pull them to change the cap...it usually damages the wire sheathing or core. Ray


Use these and bulk copper core wire along with your spark plug ends and build your own:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Beru-Spark-Plug-Wire-...mp;vxp=mtr


Yes!.....I have a bag of those! Are those new?

I have been debating to do just that. There are lots of thick jacketing copper core bulk ignition wires available out there. Ray
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Tram
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Tram wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
blues90 wrote:
Donnie strickland wrote:
Here you go Ray:


I noticed that on the two sets of Bosch wires I got . One set was in the 80's and one 2 years ago and noticed the dist cap boot is 90 degree yet the wire is straight . They work fine yet when new are a PITA to fit . The coil wire is carbon fiber yet the plug wires are stranded wire with the resister in the plug end.


Yep...and that is exactly what I was getting at by asking Donnie if the wires he is using are "REALLY" 90* wire fittings...or just forcing a straight wire through a 90* like you are describing with your Bosch wires.

I hated those when I found that. Yes...when brand new they fit just fine. First time you have to pull them to change the cap...it usually damages the wire sheathing or core. Ray


Use these and bulk copper core wire along with your spark plug ends and build your own:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Beru-Spark-Plug-Wire-...mp;vxp=mtr


Yes!.....I have a bag of those! Are those new?

I have been debating to do just that. There are lots of thick jacketing copper core bulk ignition wires available out there. Ray


Yes, they are new. They're sort of expensive but you get what you pay for. I use these and OEM ends/ boots along with NGK non resistors. Modern resistor plugs and wires together just have too much resistance which leads to plug fouling.

I've also been scavenging the original VW and Mercedes L ends for years. All of these, just like the new one I linked to, just screw onto a new wire like the spark plug connectors do. Unless they get damaged or broken, it'd not the ends that go bad- it's the wire.
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Donnie strickland
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
Tram wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:
blues90 wrote:
Donnie strickland wrote:
Here you go Ray:


I noticed that on the two sets of Bosch wires I got . One set was in the 80's and one 2 years ago and noticed the dist cap boot is 90 degree yet the wire is straight . They work fine yet when new are a PITA to fit . The coil wire is carbon fiber yet the plug wires are stranded wire with the resister in the plug end.


Yep...and that is exactly what I was getting at by asking Donnie if the wires he is using are "REALLY" 90* wire fittings...or just forcing a straight wire through a 90* like you are describing with your Bosch wires.

I hated those when I found that. Yes...when brand new they fit just fine. First time you have to pull them to change the cap...it usually damages the wire sheathing or core. Ray


Use these and bulk copper core wire along with your spark plug ends and build your own:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Beru-Spark-Plug-Wire-...mp;vxp=mtr


Yes!.....I have a bag of those! Are those new?

I have been debating to do just that. There are lots of thick jacketing copper core bulk ignition wires available out there. Ray


Yes, they are new. They're sort of expensive but you get what you pay for. I use these and OEM ends/ boots along with NGK non resistors. Modern resistor plugs and wires together just have too much resistance which leads to plug fouling.

I've also been scavenging the original VW and Mercedes L ends for years. All of these, just like the new one I linked to, just screw onto a new wire like the spark plug connectors do. Unless they get damaged or broken, it'd not the ends that go bad- it's the wire.


That's what Jim Adney does, he's got some squirrelled away in his stash.

Good to know you can still get new ones!
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Yep.....I had been doing the same thing,for a long time....screwing the old ends onto new wires.

Best wires ai had found a,while back wers NGK solid cores with spriral outer winding. They were 1mm skinnier but stilll worked. There are a pot of good wires out,there using good wire atock now.
Rat
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blues90
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

I was under the impression that Russ and Jim saved the Bosch wires and that the plug end resisters are what went bad.

I don't care for the way Bosch used 90 degree boots and straight wire ends or the carbon fiber coil wire which as I understand is mainly for radio noise suppression .

Most wires for a long time the entire set was carbon fiber along with resistor plugs on many American built cars and trucks.

From what I gather resistor plugs are around 5 K ohm . I looked at the NGK plug site chart and they have their resistor plug listed and this is what most FLAPS sell.

In the early 70's when I worked at a gas station as their tech we used Beldon wire and made our own wires and used standard ignition points and rotors and caps.

I still have a metal box with some of the plug wire ends in it. I can't recall if any were 90 degree.

As far as I know Bosch quit making their wire sets . I don't feel the Bosch wires are bad they are stranded core . One could use that same wire for the coil to cap and lose resistance. That's all I found with the old Bosch set I replaced was the coil wire had high resistance .

The set from Napa looks good. I don't know it the coil wire is carbon fiber.
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hkpresley
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Hello
I’m looking for help with my 90%+ original 1970 squareback. I’ve had it for 3 years and has ran very good except for a backfire on acceleration & a miss when on the freeway occasionally. It started spitting and sputtering (intermittant) but now it’s most of the time. My (classic vw) mechanic has worked on it a few times and really helped but it starts acting up again. He says it was running on 2 cylinders when that was happening. He is leaning towards the computer even tho he cleaned the connections on it and other parts. He’s says he’s done all he can think of so I came here. When driving very slow it jumps up and back fast like the accelerator is pushed off and on (until I stop it by the clutch). Does anyone think it could be the computer or... something else? Thank so much for anyone’s help.
Holly
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Intermittently starving for fuel? Pull the fuel sender out of the gas tank and look down on the fuel sock in there with a flashlight & see if there is crud/rust sloshing around & plugging up the fuel sock at the outlet. Drain it all out if it's cruddy & filter it through a cotton T-shirt before reusing it.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

hkpresley wrote:
Hello
I’m looking for help with my 90%+ original 1970 squareback. I’ve had it for 3 years and has ran very good except for a backfire on acceleration & a miss when on the freeway occasionally. It started spitting and sputtering (intermittant) but now it’s most of the time. My (classic vw) mechanic has worked on it a few times and really helped but it starts acting up again. He says it was running on 2 cylinders when that was happening. He is leaning towards the computer even tho he cleaned the connections on it and other parts. He’s says he’s done all he can think of so I came here. When driving very slow it jumps up and back fast like the accelerator is pushed off and on (until I stop it by the clutch). Does anyone think it could be the computer or... something else? Thank so much for anyone’s help.
Holly


Like Mike fisher noted....first check the fuel supply...the sock filter in the tank...put a gauge on it and check fuel pressure at idle and when revving up. It needs to be stable at idle within about +/- 2 psi. It should not drop more than 2 more psi when you rev it up an only for maybe 1/2 second.

If the car runs at all....its very , very, very, very, very ...RARELY...the computer.
Not beating on your mechanic...but 99% of those who cannot diagnose running on two cylinders....and who immediately suspect the computer....have no idea how the system works. They are just tinkering blindly.

The injectors are connected in pairs. A single ground issue can kill two at a time. Each injector has its own ground wire....but depending on year...they either pair up before they connect to the ground lug on the case centerline...or they pair up at the ground lug on the case centerline.

If its both injectors on one side of the engine not firing....its either a ground wire....or....its the connections from the + signal wires loose or broken between the ECU and the plugs.

The female connectors inside of the injector and component plugs are 100% suspect as well. With age and cycles of plugging and unplugging...they get loose fitting on the male pins.

The ONLY way to fix this is to use a thin tool to depress the locking tab on each connector and remove the connector from the plug and lightly squeeze the rolled edges of the connectors to tighten up the fit. Buy some spares before you start and a REAL crimping tool...because with age these small brass connectors can crack when you tighten them.

DO NOT be fooled by a tight fit of the plastic plug into each each injector. The fit of the plug to the injector can be tight...even when there are no female pins inside.

The issues can also be a poor connection at the three pin plug on the distributor. This is very common. The plug goes to the injector trigger set. It fires them in DIAGONAL pairs...so if you have one cylinder on each side of the engine not firing....it can be the signal from the trigger points. Either cracked wires...loose female connectors...or dirty trigger points.

Ray
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stonecoldcars
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

When I went through my system, all the connectors were just "loosey-goosey". You could tell they just weren't making great contact, and would easily fall out or unplug. I used some CRC connector cleaner and because of the age of these connectors the female part of the connector just isn't making firm contact with the male side. Just like your wall outlet in your house, over time your vacuum cleaner plug just falls out of the outlet while your vacuuming, and you have to fold the ears in or out to stay in. LOL . So what I did was used a small pair of needle nose pliers and applied a small "twist" on the male side. This gave it a more "positive" contact. So that's my two cents.
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hkpresley
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:03 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Thank you all sooooo very much! At least I have somewhere to go from here as I want to keep this car (daily driver). If anyone knows of a mechanic in orange California I’m listening! I will let you all know what the problem was when I do get it fixed. Bye for now!
Holly
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Tram
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

hkpresley wrote:
Thank you all sooooo very much! At least I have somewhere to go from here as I want to keep this car (daily driver). If anyone knows of a mechanic in orange California I’m listening! I will let you all know what the problem was when I do get it fixed. Bye for now!
Holly


Holly, either you or your technician need to test the manifold air pressure sensor to see if it holds vacuum. These are all getting older and the copper diaphragms split. The first symptom of trouble seems to be an intermittent single "miss" at highway speeds. The other culprit for this is a worn throttle switch.

But yes, make sure the harness is making good connections everywhere first.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Thanks Tram...
Another thing I remember recently is very occassionally the throttle “sticks” in the accelerating position but only for a second. So brief that I question myself that it happened but my son also noticed this. Would this be connected to the throttle switch you mentioned? I’m gathering all the comments to take to the mechanic so thanks again to all of you! It probably doesn’t help that I don’t drive that often as I work from home but I pay attention to what it’s doing.
Holly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

hkpresley wrote:
Thanks Tram...
Another thing I remember recently is very occassionally the throttle “sticks” in the accelerating position but only for a second. So brief that I question myself that it happened but my son also noticed this. Would this be connected to the throttle switch you mentioned? I’m gathering all the comments to take to the mechanic so thanks again to all of you! It probably doesn’t help that I don’t drive that often as I work from home but I pay attention to what it’s doing.
Holly


Look around the throttle pedal inside the car, as the carpet might be moving a little causing that issue. I've had that happen before, as have others.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Hello Tram, If I removed the FI motor in my Automatic Fastback and dropped a 2110 in where would I grab vacuum from for the Automatic tranny? By the way should there be oil coming out of the vacuum line on the tranny when you pull it off?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

gheezerghia wrote:
Hello Tram, If I removed the FI motor in my Automatic Fastback and dropped a 2110 in where would I grab vacuum from for the Automatic tranny? By the way should there be oil coming out of the vacuum line on the tranny when you pull it off?


Is it motor oil...or transmission fluid.

If its motor oil its not uncommon that over a period of time you can get oil down in the line. Usually condensation from oil vapor coming from the oil bath cleaner. But...thats usually just a small dribble.

If its red transmission fluid... its common that your modulator valve has a cracked diaphragm inside. Ray
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Ray. It was motor oil. Just caught me off guard and wanted to be sure I didn’t have a problem. Ray in my original post I had asked if I were to put a 2110 in my car where would the tranny get it’s vacuum from? That is a vacuum line going to the tranny, right? Thanks again
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

gheezerghia wrote:
Thanks for the reply Ray. It was motor oil. Just caught me off guard and wanted to be sure I didn’t have a problem. Ray in my original post I had asked if I were to put a 2110 in my car where would the tranny get it’s vacuum from? That is a vacuum line going to the tranny, right? Thanks again


This is the problem with carbs. Depending on the carbs you may or may not get a high enough vacuum signature.

Typically you make a balance tube between tbe two carb manifolds to a small volume chamber in the center to get enough vacuum.
It needs to be a small chamber. Maybe about the volume of a stock square fuel filter. Its enough to give slightly better vacuum volume and buffer the pulses from each manifold.

If its too large it can either effect the carbs or cause a slight delay in vacuum pulse build. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Do you think the same would hold true if I did the Subi swap? Just exploring my options here. Thanks Ray
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

gheezerghia wrote:
Do you think the same would hold true if I did the Subi swap? Just exploring my options here. Thanks Ray


Carbs are carbs. It varies with the type. They have less vacuum from where the port goes in and how they work. Most will need a balance pipe.

The fuel injected engines...were effectively their own balance pipe. They were using manifold vacuum with all four cylinders joined together at the plenum. Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

gheezerghia wrote:
Thanks for the reply Ray. It was motor oil. Just caught me off guard and wanted to be sure I didn’t have a problem. Ray in my original post I had asked if I were to put a 2110 in my car where would the tranny get it’s vacuum from? That is a vacuum line going to the tranny, right? Thanks again


From a tee in the balance tube. Shouldn't need a chamber to assist it.
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64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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