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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Tram wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
blues90 wrote: |
Donnie strickland wrote: |
Here you go Ray:
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I noticed that on the two sets of Bosch wires I got . One set was in the 80's and one 2 years ago and noticed the dist cap boot is 90 degree yet the wire is straight . They work fine yet when new are a PITA to fit . The coil wire is carbon fiber yet the plug wires are stranded wire with the resister in the plug end. |
Yep...and that is exactly what I was getting at by asking Donnie if the wires he is using are "REALLY" 90* wire fittings...or just forcing a straight wire through a 90* like you are describing with your Bosch wires.
I hated those when I found that. Yes...when brand new they fit just fine. First time you have to pull them to change the cap...it usually damages the wire sheathing or core. Ray |
Use these and bulk copper core wire along with your spark plug ends and build your own:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Beru-Spark-Plug-Wire-...mp;vxp=mtr |
Yes!.....I have a bag of those! Are those new?
I have been debating to do just that. There are lots of thick jacketing copper core bulk ignition wires available out there. Ray |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Tram wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
blues90 wrote: |
Donnie strickland wrote: |
Here you go Ray:
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I noticed that on the two sets of Bosch wires I got . One set was in the 80's and one 2 years ago and noticed the dist cap boot is 90 degree yet the wire is straight . They work fine yet when new are a PITA to fit . The coil wire is carbon fiber yet the plug wires are stranded wire with the resister in the plug end. |
Yep...and that is exactly what I was getting at by asking Donnie if the wires he is using are "REALLY" 90* wire fittings...or just forcing a straight wire through a 90* like you are describing with your Bosch wires.
I hated those when I found that. Yes...when brand new they fit just fine. First time you have to pull them to change the cap...it usually damages the wire sheathing or core. Ray |
Use these and bulk copper core wire along with your spark plug ends and build your own:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Beru-Spark-Plug-Wire-...mp;vxp=mtr |
Yes!.....I have a bag of those! Are those new?
I have been debating to do just that. There are lots of thick jacketing copper core bulk ignition wires available out there. Ray |
Yes, they are new. They're sort of expensive but you get what you pay for. I use these and OEM ends/ boots along with NGK non resistors. Modern resistor plugs and wires together just have too much resistance which leads to plug fouling.
I've also been scavenging the original VW and Mercedes L ends for years. All of these, just like the new one I linked to, just screw onto a new wire like the spark plug connectors do. Unless they get damaged or broken, it'd not the ends that go bad- it's the wire. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Tram wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Tram wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
blues90 wrote: |
Donnie strickland wrote: |
Here you go Ray:
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I noticed that on the two sets of Bosch wires I got . One set was in the 80's and one 2 years ago and noticed the dist cap boot is 90 degree yet the wire is straight . They work fine yet when new are a PITA to fit . The coil wire is carbon fiber yet the plug wires are stranded wire with the resister in the plug end. |
Yep...and that is exactly what I was getting at by asking Donnie if the wires he is using are "REALLY" 90* wire fittings...or just forcing a straight wire through a 90* like you are describing with your Bosch wires.
I hated those when I found that. Yes...when brand new they fit just fine. First time you have to pull them to change the cap...it usually damages the wire sheathing or core. Ray |
Use these and bulk copper core wire along with your spark plug ends and build your own:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Beru-Spark-Plug-Wire-...mp;vxp=mtr |
Yes!.....I have a bag of those! Are those new?
I have been debating to do just that. There are lots of thick jacketing copper core bulk ignition wires available out there. Ray |
Yes, they are new. They're sort of expensive but you get what you pay for. I use these and OEM ends/ boots along with NGK non resistors. Modern resistor plugs and wires together just have too much resistance which leads to plug fouling.
I've also been scavenging the original VW and Mercedes L ends for years. All of these, just like the new one I linked to, just screw onto a new wire like the spark plug connectors do. Unless they get damaged or broken, it'd not the ends that go bad- it's the wire. |
That's what Jim Adney does, he's got some squirrelled away in his stash.
Good to know you can still get new ones! _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Yep.....I had been doing the same thing,for a long time....screwing the old ends onto new wires.
Best wires ai had found a,while back wers NGK solid cores with spriral outer winding. They were 1mm skinnier but stilll worked. There are a pot of good wires out,there using good wire atock now.
Rat |
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blues90 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2009 Posts: 1912 Location: Hollywood ,CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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I was under the impression that Russ and Jim saved the Bosch wires and that the plug end resisters are what went bad.
I don't care for the way Bosch used 90 degree boots and straight wire ends or the carbon fiber coil wire which as I understand is mainly for radio noise suppression .
Most wires for a long time the entire set was carbon fiber along with resistor plugs on many American built cars and trucks.
From what I gather resistor plugs are around 5 K ohm . I looked at the NGK plug site chart and they have their resistor plug listed and this is what most FLAPS sell.
In the early 70's when I worked at a gas station as their tech we used Beldon wire and made our own wires and used standard ignition points and rotors and caps.
I still have a metal box with some of the plug wire ends in it. I can't recall if any were 90 degree.
As far as I know Bosch quit making their wire sets . I don't feel the Bosch wires are bad they are stranded core . One could use that same wire for the coil to cap and lose resistance. That's all I found with the old Bosch set I replaced was the coil wire had high resistance .
The set from Napa looks good. I don't know it the coil wire is carbon fiber. |
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hkpresley Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2010 Posts: 3 Location: ORANGE
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Hello
I’m looking for help with my 90%+ original 1970 squareback. I’ve had it for 3 years and has ran very good except for a backfire on acceleration & a miss when on the freeway occasionally. It started spitting and sputtering (intermittant) but now it’s most of the time. My (classic vw) mechanic has worked on it a few times and really helped but it starts acting up again. He says it was running on 2 cylinders when that was happening. He is leaning towards the computer even tho he cleaned the connections on it and other parts. He’s says he’s done all he can think of so I came here. When driving very slow it jumps up and back fast like the accelerator is pushed off and on (until I stop it by the clutch). Does anyone think it could be the computer or... something else? Thank so much for anyone’s help.
Holly |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17962 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Intermittently starving for fuel? Pull the fuel sender out of the gas tank and look down on the fuel sock in there with a flashlight & see if there is crud/rust sloshing around & plugging up the fuel sock at the outlet. Drain it all out if it's cruddy & filter it through a cotton T-shirt before reusing it. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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hkpresley wrote: |
Hello
I’m looking for help with my 90%+ original 1970 squareback. I’ve had it for 3 years and has ran very good except for a backfire on acceleration & a miss when on the freeway occasionally. It started spitting and sputtering (intermittant) but now it’s most of the time. My (classic vw) mechanic has worked on it a few times and really helped but it starts acting up again. He says it was running on 2 cylinders when that was happening. He is leaning towards the computer even tho he cleaned the connections on it and other parts. He’s says he’s done all he can think of so I came here. When driving very slow it jumps up and back fast like the accelerator is pushed off and on (until I stop it by the clutch). Does anyone think it could be the computer or... something else? Thank so much for anyone’s help.
Holly |
Like Mike fisher noted....first check the fuel supply...the sock filter in the tank...put a gauge on it and check fuel pressure at idle and when revving up. It needs to be stable at idle within about +/- 2 psi. It should not drop more than 2 more psi when you rev it up an only for maybe 1/2 second.
If the car runs at all....its very , very, very, very, very ...RARELY...the computer.
Not beating on your mechanic...but 99% of those who cannot diagnose running on two cylinders....and who immediately suspect the computer....have no idea how the system works. They are just tinkering blindly.
The injectors are connected in pairs. A single ground issue can kill two at a time. Each injector has its own ground wire....but depending on year...they either pair up before they connect to the ground lug on the case centerline...or they pair up at the ground lug on the case centerline.
If its both injectors on one side of the engine not firing....its either a ground wire....or....its the connections from the + signal wires loose or broken between the ECU and the plugs.
The female connectors inside of the injector and component plugs are 100% suspect as well. With age and cycles of plugging and unplugging...they get loose fitting on the male pins.
The ONLY way to fix this is to use a thin tool to depress the locking tab on each connector and remove the connector from the plug and lightly squeeze the rolled edges of the connectors to tighten up the fit. Buy some spares before you start and a REAL crimping tool...because with age these small brass connectors can crack when you tighten them.
DO NOT be fooled by a tight fit of the plastic plug into each each injector. The fit of the plug to the injector can be tight...even when there are no female pins inside.
The issues can also be a poor connection at the three pin plug on the distributor. This is very common. The plug goes to the injector trigger set. It fires them in DIAGONAL pairs...so if you have one cylinder on each side of the engine not firing....it can be the signal from the trigger points. Either cracked wires...loose female connectors...or dirty trigger points.
Ray |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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When I went through my system, all the connectors were just "loosey-goosey". You could tell they just weren't making great contact, and would easily fall out or unplug. I used some CRC connector cleaner and because of the age of these connectors the female part of the connector just isn't making firm contact with the male side. Just like your wall outlet in your house, over time your vacuum cleaner plug just falls out of the outlet while your vacuuming, and you have to fold the ears in or out to stay in. LOL . So what I did was used a small pair of needle nose pliers and applied a small "twist" on the male side. This gave it a more "positive" contact. So that's my two cents. _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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hkpresley Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2010 Posts: 3 Location: ORANGE
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Thank you all sooooo very much! At least I have somewhere to go from here as I want to keep this car (daily driver). If anyone knows of a mechanic in orange California I’m listening! I will let you all know what the problem was when I do get it fixed. Bye for now!
Holly |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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hkpresley wrote: |
Thank you all sooooo very much! At least I have somewhere to go from here as I want to keep this car (daily driver). If anyone knows of a mechanic in orange California I’m listening! I will let you all know what the problem was when I do get it fixed. Bye for now!
Holly |
Holly, either you or your technician need to test the manifold air pressure sensor to see if it holds vacuum. These are all getting older and the copper diaphragms split. The first symptom of trouble seems to be an intermittent single "miss" at highway speeds. The other culprit for this is a worn throttle switch.
But yes, make sure the harness is making good connections everywhere first. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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hkpresley Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2010 Posts: 3 Location: ORANGE
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Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Thanks Tram...
Another thing I remember recently is very occassionally the throttle “sticks” in the accelerating position but only for a second. So brief that I question myself that it happened but my son also noticed this. Would this be connected to the throttle switch you mentioned? I’m gathering all the comments to take to the mechanic so thanks again to all of you! It probably doesn’t help that I don’t drive that often as I work from home but I pay attention to what it’s doing.
Holly |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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hkpresley wrote: |
Thanks Tram...
Another thing I remember recently is very occassionally the throttle “sticks” in the accelerating position but only for a second. So brief that I question myself that it happened but my son also noticed this. Would this be connected to the throttle switch you mentioned? I’m gathering all the comments to take to the mechanic so thanks again to all of you! It probably doesn’t help that I don’t drive that often as I work from home but I pay attention to what it’s doing.
Holly |
Look around the throttle pedal inside the car, as the carpet might be moving a little causing that issue. I've had that happen before, as have others. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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gheezerghia Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2007 Posts: 495
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Hello Tram, If I removed the FI motor in my Automatic Fastback and dropped a 2110 in where would I grab vacuum from for the Automatic tranny? By the way should there be oil coming out of the vacuum line on the tranny when you pull it off? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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gheezerghia wrote: |
Hello Tram, If I removed the FI motor in my Automatic Fastback and dropped a 2110 in where would I grab vacuum from for the Automatic tranny? By the way should there be oil coming out of the vacuum line on the tranny when you pull it off? |
Is it motor oil...or transmission fluid.
If its motor oil its not uncommon that over a period of time you can get oil down in the line. Usually condensation from oil vapor coming from the oil bath cleaner. But...thats usually just a small dribble.
If its red transmission fluid... its common that your modulator valve has a cracked diaphragm inside. Ray |
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gheezerghia Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2007 Posts: 495
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Thanks for the reply Ray. It was motor oil. Just caught me off guard and wanted to be sure I didn’t have a problem. Ray in my original post I had asked if I were to put a 2110 in my car where would the tranny get it’s vacuum from? That is a vacuum line going to the tranny, right? Thanks again |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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gheezerghia wrote: |
Thanks for the reply Ray. It was motor oil. Just caught me off guard and wanted to be sure I didn’t have a problem. Ray in my original post I had asked if I were to put a 2110 in my car where would the tranny get it’s vacuum from? That is a vacuum line going to the tranny, right? Thanks again |
This is the problem with carbs. Depending on the carbs you may or may not get a high enough vacuum signature.
Typically you make a balance tube between tbe two carb manifolds to a small volume chamber in the center to get enough vacuum.
It needs to be a small chamber. Maybe about the volume of a stock square fuel filter. Its enough to give slightly better vacuum volume and buffer the pulses from each manifold.
If its too large it can either effect the carbs or cause a slight delay in vacuum pulse build. Ray |
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gheezerghia Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2007 Posts: 495
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Do you think the same would hold true if I did the Subi swap? Just exploring my options here. Thanks Ray |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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gheezerghia wrote: |
Do you think the same would hold true if I did the Subi swap? Just exploring my options here. Thanks Ray |
Carbs are carbs. It varies with the type. They have less vacuum from where the port goes in and how they work. Most will need a balance pipe.
The fuel injected engines...were effectively their own balance pipe. They were using manifold vacuum with all four cylinders joined together at the plenum. Ray |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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gheezerghia wrote: |
Thanks for the reply Ray. It was motor oil. Just caught me off guard and wanted to be sure I didn’t have a problem. Ray in my original post I had asked if I were to put a 2110 in my car where would the tranny get it’s vacuum from? That is a vacuum line going to the tranny, right? Thanks again |
From a tee in the balance tube. Shouldn't need a chamber to assist it. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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