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KollynnBlackpaw Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016 Posts: 528 Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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The only issue I see is that I'm using the e2000 pump which is a two outlet pump. The pump that the PO had installed was also a two in/out. I see this image has 3. _________________ '71 Shantung Yellow AT/FI Squareback |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Here is a 2-port diagram from the Type 4 forums:
Unlike the Type 3 diagram, this one is drawn with the pressure side at the top, do don't get confused. Also, the cold start valve on the Type 3 is different... none of this matters to you; the important part is the piping from tank to filter to pump to damper to fuel ring. You also eliminate the Y-connection on the return side of the loop to the tank. |
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KollynnBlackpaw Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016 Posts: 528 Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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KTPhil wrote: |
Here is a 2-port diagram from the Type 4 forums:
Unlike the Type 3 diagram, this one is drawn with the pressure side at the top, do don't get confused. Also, the cold start valve on the Type 3 is different... none of this matters to you; the important part is the piping from tank to filter to pump to damper to fuel ring. You also eliminate the Y-connection on the return side of the loop to the tank. |
ah everything here looks right, however my pressure reg is on the right side of the car, and was in my running 72 as well. Moving the filter to the correct spot did help it however it still don't drive more than half a mile before it starts giving up. I'm going to check and make absolutely sure there's no vacuum leaks in places I hadn't thought of. I've been reading the first few chunks of another post here (69 fi squareback misadventures) and some of the stuff around page four and five sound like good tests and places for me to check. Going to check any wiring issues as well. _________________ '71 Shantung Yellow AT/FI Squareback |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Mirror image that pic Phil posted, and it looks like the type 3 pic, but with the 2 port pump.
Lets make sure you got everything right.
hose out of the tank fitting (with the nut)
to the fuel filter
out of the fuel fiter to the inlet of the pump
out of the pump to the drivers side steel line in the pan
out of the pan (at rear of car) to the 3/4 engine side injectors
out of 3/4 injectors with hose to the 1/2 injectors
out of the 1/2 injectors to fuel pressure regulator
out of fuel pressure regulator to rear passenger side rear steel line
out of passenger steel line (up front) to fuel tank fitting (without the nut).
If this is how your car is plumbed, you're good to go. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Bobnotch wrote: |
Mirror image that pic Phil posted, and it looks like the type 3 pic, but with the 2 port pump.
Lets make sure you got everything right.
hose out of the tank fitting (with the nut)
to the fuel filter
out of the fuel fiter to the inlet of the pump
out of the pump to the drivers side steel line in the pan
out of the pan (at rear of car) to the 3/4 engine side injectors
out of 3/4 injectors with hose to the 1/2 injectors
out of the 1/2 injectors to fuel pressure regulator
out of fuel pressure regulator to rear passenger side rear steel line
out of passenger steel line (up front) to fuel tank fitting (without the nut).
If this is how your car is plumbed, you're good to go. |
Yes....thats one of my hack drawings I made for the 411/412 forum. Its the type 4 car version of the D-jet system. Identical in every way except the pressure regulator is on the drivers side/ cylinders 3 and 4 side.
On the type 4 cars....fuel is pumped to the engine on the right side of the car and return comes down the left and on type 3 fuel is pumped to the engine on the left side and returms on the right.
Same basic issues/fixes for two port from three port pumps applies. Ray |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17963 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
Here is a 2-port diagram from the Type 4 forums:
Unlike the Type 3 diagram, this one is drawn with the pressure side at the top, do don't get confused. Also, the cold start valve on the Type 3 is different... none of this matters to you; the important part is the piping from tank to filter to pump to damper to fuel ring. You also eliminate the Y-connection on the return side of the loop to the tank. |
ah everything here looks right, however my pressure reg is on the right side of the car, and was in my running 72 as well. Moving the filter to the correct spot did help it however it still don't drive more than half a mile before it starts giving up. I'm going to check and make absolutely sure there's no vacuum leaks in places I hadn't thought of. I've been reading the first few chunks of another post here (69 fi squareback misadventures) and some of the stuff around page four and five sound like good tests and places for me to check. Going to check any wiring issues as well. |
You changed fuel pumps & swapped fuel pressure regulators etc, but still haven't bought/built a fuel pressure gauge after almost 2 years of owning 3 different fuel injected squarebacks.
The test port is the small black square between the 1/2 or 3/4 injectors. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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KollynnBlackpaw Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016 Posts: 528 Location: Hubbard, Oregon
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Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Mike Fisher wrote: |
You changed fuel pumps & swapped fuel pressure regulators etc, but still haven't bought/built a fuel pressure gauge after almost 2 years of owning 3 different fuel injected squarebacks.
The test port is the small black square between the 1/2 or 3/4 injectors. |
Only majorly worked on two and each for less than a month! Haha. No I know, I need one, I'm building one asap. Wasn't expecting to work this weekend or I'd already have one. I'm hoping getting the pressure perfect will get it running. If not I've got connections to check, and electronics too if that's not the solution. _________________ '71 Shantung Yellow AT/FI Squareback |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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KollynnBlackpaw wrote: |
Mike Fisher wrote: |
You changed fuel pumps & swapped fuel pressure regulators etc, but still haven't bought/built a fuel pressure gauge after almost 2 years of owning 3 different fuel injected squarebacks.
The test port is the small black square between the 1/2 or 3/4 injectors. |
Only majorly worked on two and each for less than a month! Haha. No I know, I need one, I'm building one asap. Wasn't expecting to work this weekend or I'd already have one. I'm hoping getting the pressure perfect will get it running. If not I've got connections to check, and electronics too if that's not the solution. |
You have to check those anyway. The components and connections of a used...40 year old D-jet system...are 100% suspect...always.
In fact....disconnect the battery and put the keys in your pocket. Its not even worth trying to start until you have cleaned each component end connector....there are only 23 wires...check for cracked wires...and tighten the female connectors.
Six main injection sensor components...MPS, trigger points, TVS, TS-1, TS-2 and the main ground wire bundles.
Then check the fuel pump, filter, regulator and hoses (the gauge works here)....then go through the ignition...points, rotor, cap, timing, mechanical and vacuum advance.....and then check EVERYTHING for leaks...air leaks. No vacuum leaks allowed at all.
This is not a carb system where just tweaking this or that alone...will get you putting around at least ok.
Everything has to be correct...if not near perfect...for D-jet to operate. Ray |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Nice! I had run across that before, but lost track. |
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JoMoSqBk Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2019 Posts: 43 Location: MO
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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A gold mine.
But much of it was lost... many of the manuals and articles were saved, but after Russ passed the site went down, and no one has found an archive, particularly for the many photos linked here on the Samba.
The smallest of the losses from his passing...
You will find FI info like that link here on the samba, too:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/fuelinjection.php |
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JoMoSqBk Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2019 Posts: 43 Location: MO
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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I am reading through the FI documentation (Thanks KTPhil) and am feeling pretty overwhelmed. my 73 squareback runs great when driving but often at a stop, it will want to die unless I tromp the gas all the way to the floor for 2-3 seconds. If it does die it will be difficult to start and require full throttle while cranking for a few seconds to fire up again.
I have replaced plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, fuel filter and checked the plugs (good spark and gap was correct). I had a non-VW mechanic put a noid light on the injectors and he thinks they are receiving low voltage. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Check dwell and timing carefully, per the Bentley procedure for your year.
Check all hoses for leaking, even if they look fine. Check that the MPS holds vacuum. Leaky injector tip seals should also be checked, same as you would check for any vacuum leak using your favorite flammable spray.
Then get out the VOM and check the temp sensor resistances.
Then adjust the idle air bypass screw on the plenum. |
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JoMoSqBk Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2019 Posts: 43 Location: MO
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Thanks! By check dwell do I really need a dwell meter or just check that my points are set correctly? |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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If your points are new, or at least have clean faces without bumps, you can use a feeler blade. |
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mercmad Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2019 Posts: 22 Location: QLD
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Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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nz jane wrote: |
My 68 squareback runs and drives mint but my fuel pump leaks. Can anyone help with where I may be able to get a replacement? Not much available for fuel injected stuff here in New Zealand. It appears to leak from where the pen is pointing. For all I know it’s meant to 😆 or is this a replaceable part? Thanks
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I am not sure if you fixed this as i didn't see a reply. The pumps shaft seal has failed and fuel coming out that hole is actually a drain to show that seal has gone.
The pump can be pulled apart and the seal replaced. What I generally do is simply fit a holden VN-VL Commodore pump which can be bought online through Supercheap auto and other places very cheaply. They supply the correct fuel volume etc.
if you are having problems getting the injection checked out properly in NZ have a look at this site.https://oldtimer.tips/en/d-jetronic/72-troubleshooting |
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blues90 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2009 Posts: 1912 Location: Hollywood ,CA
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Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Tram wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
Optional cold start system? At least in '71 even California T3s had them. Maybe it was optional in early years?
I also see it was retrofittable, so it might be on some but not all older cars. Maybe that is what is meant by "optional"? An "optional retrofit"?
Late models used a jet into the body of the intake air distributor. Retrofits used a different IAD backplate with a jet on it. |
Russ said that the early FI cars didn't come with the coldstart, but I've never seen one like that, and Bentley doesn't mention it, so we're flying blind here as it seems that this is exactly what JSM has.
I wouldn't just go grounding that #14 wire. That could cause some ECU damage if grounding it isn't the right solution. |
#14 on the ECU is only used for 72 and all 73 cars built for Calif it has something to do with the EGR valve as the TPS is piggy backed off the EGR relay. |
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EasternNotch Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2006 Posts: 631 Location: Boston Metro West
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Ecasci01 Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2019 Posts: 2 Location: Ny
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Have a 71 squareback FI WHEN I TAKE THE FUEL INJECTOR WIRES OFF THERE IS NO POWER there with a test light. Where does the power come from for the fuel injectors? |
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