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Bolse
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2021
Posts: 2
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Thank you all for your reply!
@bobnotch: Thatīs good news. I have found one C-marked ECU second hand. If the ECU is root cause then I might buy that one.
@KTPhil: I connected the voltmeter, put the phone on record, and got into the car and turn on the ignition(first position) Then I go back to the phone and check if I got any readout from the voltmeter. That procedure should be okay, right?
@Mike Fisher: Might be the problem but if i donīt get any power to the pump. I think I would start there. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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ECU failures are extremely rare. However, there are reports of the pump circuit (wire 19) being an issue on those rare occasions.
Wires, connectors, replays, and pumps are far more common failures, so eliminate those 100% before buying parts like an ECU. |
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tmitoraj
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:15 am Post subject: vacuum leaks |
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| Is there any sure fire way to check for vacuum leaks at all the usual places that can leak? How do you know for sure nothing is leaking? Thanks Tom |
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tmitoraj
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:45 am Post subject: Fuel Rail pressure drops quickly |
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| After I shut off the engine the pressure drops quickly in the fuel rail of my FI system. My fuel pump has been rebuilt so the ball check valve should be good. The system maintains steady pressure while it is running. How do I check for leaks in the injector seals (which are new)? How do you isolate the fuel pressure regulator as the problem. The cold start valve? thanks Tom |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Rail pressure drops quickly |
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| tmitoraj wrote: |
| After I shut off the engine the pressure drops quickly in the fuel rail of my FI system. My fuel pump has been rebuilt so the ball check valve should be good. The system maintains steady pressure while it is running. How do I check for leaks in the injector seals (which are new)? How do you isolate the fuel pressure regulator as the problem. The cold start valve? thanks Tom |
Get a clamp device for your feed line to the inj system. As soon as you turn it off, apply the clamp and watch your gauge. If the pressure holds it's likely the check valve. If it still drops off you can clamp BOTH sides- the feed and return line going to the regulator. If that stops it, try it again applying a clamp only to the return side. If it holds it's likely the pressure regulator. If it still drops off in spite of all that, it's time to pull the injectors and cold start valve and see what's leaking (ignition coil disabled).
If it WERE an injector or CSV leaking that much, though, it should run like crap and be emitting black smoke.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Rail pressure drops quickly |
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| Tram wrote: |
| tmitoraj wrote: |
| After I shut off the engine the pressure drops quickly in the fuel rail of my FI system. My fuel pump has been rebuilt so the ball check valve should be good. The system maintains steady pressure while it is running. How do I check for leaks in the injector seals (which are new)? How do you isolate the fuel pressure regulator as the problem. The cold start valve? thanks Tom |
Get a clamp device for your feed line to the inj system. As soon as you turn it off, apply the clamp and watch your gauge. If the pressure holds it's likely the check valve. If it still drops off you can clamp BOTH sides- the feed and return line going to the regulator. If that stops it, try it again applying a clamp only to the return side. If it holds it's likely the pressure regulator. If it still drops off in spite of all that, it's time to pull the injectors and cold start valve and see what's leaking (ignition coil disabled).
If it WERE an injector or CSV leaking that much, though, it should run like crap and be emitting black smoke. |
All of this ^^^^^ do these checks
Also.....the pumps cannot be actually rebuilt. They can be opened up, cleaned, swap a few rollers around from a spares pile to get them all as tight tolerance as possible....then new seals....and new body or-ng and re-crimp.
The check valve is the one thing you really cannot do much about.....and thats not really a rebuilt pump. Refurbed.
Not saying its a bad thing...just that they are only perfectly operable about half the time.
If the regulator is years old...or has mileage on it and then has been sitting still in a driveway for a long period of time.....about 90% of the time the regulator is leaking down. It is "technically" a check valve as well.
Here is my write up on what and how the regulators fail.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=656298&highlight
Ray |
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tmitoraj
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Rail pressure drops quickly |
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| If it is a pump problem and I decide to go with the Ford ranger pump should I install a check valve in the line somewhere since those pumps don't have one? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Rail pressure drops quickly |
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| tmitoraj wrote: |
| If it is a pump problem and I decide to go with the Ford ranger pump should I install a check valve in the line somewhere since those pumps don't have one? |
Yes.
And....do not just get stuck on "Ford Ranger" pumps. That particular pump....is not made for or by Ford. Its a generic pump that Ford also happens to use. It comes in about a dozen configurations. All sorts of inlet/outlet sizes...with check valve and without etc.
Here is an example:
Read some of the comments in the reviews as well of how people needed to adapt
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/atx-e2000
See...you can order these as "vehicle specific" for a HUGE range of vehicles...meaning they come with the correct fittings and check valves for that vehicle....which may or may not be "best" for yours.....or you can order the "universal" version and put your own fittings on it.
The Airtex E2000 in general is what you are looking for. I have a list of about 100 or so Bosch pumps and a few others that will also drop right in.
Ray |
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tmitoraj
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:12 am Post subject: Smoke machine to detect vacuum leaks |
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Would one of those automotive smoke machines be useful to find and correct any vacuum leaks on a T3 FI system? Maybe put the smoke in the oil bath air intact and let it get sucked around and see where it comes out at a leak? Thanks
Tom |
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TheMisstress79
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Howdy All!
I have a 79 VW Bus with CA fuel injection.
Just had the engine rebuilt and I put it in, timed it to TDC off #1 and get a very weak orange spark from coil when grounding a plug while cranking.
Got a new Hall unit for the dizzy with new rotor and cap.
Went through all the manual checks, continuity is good, 12v everywhere that needs it and ground that needs it, injectors are good, double relay is good, pump is good, MAF is good, new starter, new O2 sensor, thermo, aux air and cold start check out. But still get no spark to get her to run. Replaced all vacuum hose.
Any ideas thanks! |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| TheMisstress79 wrote: |
Howdy All!
I have a 79 VW Bus with CA fuel injection.
Just had the engine rebuilt and I put it in, timed it to TDC off #1 and get a very weak orange spark from coil when grounding a plug while cranking.
Got a new Hall unit for the dizzy with new rotor and cap.
Went through all the manual checks, continuity is good, 12v everywhere that needs it and ground that needs it, injectors are good, double relay is good, pump is good, MAF is good, new starter, new O2 sensor, thermo, aux air and cold start check out. But still get no spark to get her to run. Replaced all vacuum hose.
Any ideas thanks! |
Sure the coil is good? If so...
my SWAG would be that the "Telefunken Box" is toast...
Also could be made by Bosch or FEBI. They are dirt cheap compared to what they cost 30 years ago! 
Here's an NOS Huco one on eBay. Everyone else everywhere seems to be out of stock on it. Check your part number against this one (211905351D) before buying.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125061842812?_trkparms=am...%7Ciid%3A1
Mount it to the aluminum heat sink with the two screws and a coat of fresh thermal paste:
https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Thermal-Heatsink-Com...1431552712
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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tmitoraj
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:41 am Post subject: What can be done to get a more stable system |
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From what I have been reading there are some things that can be done to get a more stable FI system using modern technology. I would like to put what I have found here and get input.
1) Add a 123 electronic distributor. There are several possible models to choose from. Maybe the programmable one would be best.
2) Add the non-copper wires to the distributor for best performance. You won't need to have the bent over rubber distributor plug ends. It will fit because it is shorter then the original because no trigger points.
3) Non resistor NKG plugs. Someone can add which ones to buy.
4) 125 ohm resistor in line with the TS2 sensor. Please explain why? And how to wire it in. A picture of the resistor. I only found 120 and 130 ohm. Would that make a difference?
5) Tune the MAP sensor when all this is in place to get the best performance. Alot has been written about this my Ray and others.
Please feel free to correct or add to. I would like to get all this information in one place. |
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volkybus
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2013
Posts: 481
Location: CASTLETON VT USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Well I hit thisby accident, but my son & I drove a 72 fastback from northern Calf to sou
Vt afew years aigo (1995) & that FI system was a mess. It broke in every state exc ept Texas. Finally made it home then spent o
ver $600 to fix it & then took it to Fl where he daily drove it a few years. Finally it was STOLDEN from his carport in a gated community.. It was a teal 72 fastback w a sunroof.. good luck everyone I'm into Buses & Conv
(Things & a Golf Cabro...
ertable Vws now but I really miss the old Fasty Bill in Puerto Rico 4 winter |
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JCBond
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2022
Posts: 27
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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1971 Type 3 Square back. Is it possible to have a pump with too much pressure? This is the pump I bought. I think it is around 80 psi. Maybe more.
My fuel pressure reads 80 psi when running and 40 when stopped. I installed a another fuel pressure regulator and replaced the return line. Could it be the pump or could it be how the tank hoses are connected or something up there? Thanks |
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rosevillain
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: roseville, ca
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| JCBond wrote: |
1971 Type 3 Square back. Is it possible to have a pump with too much pressure? This is the pump I bought. I think it is around 80 psi. Maybe more.
My fuel pressure reads 80 psi when running and 40 when stopped. I installed a another fuel pressure regulator and replaced the return line. Could it be the pump or could it be how the tank hoses are connected or something up there? Thanks |
Yes. Your engine needs less than half of the capacity of that pump. It's very possible that your return lines or regulator are not large enough to bypass the amount of fuel needed to bring your pressure to where it needs to be. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Return line blocked or pinched? It's not even trying to regulate.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| rosevillain wrote: |
| JCBond wrote: |
1971 Type 3 Square back. Is it possible to have a pump with too much pressure? This is the pump I bought. I think it is around 80 psi. Maybe more.
My fuel pressure reads 80 psi when running and 40 when stopped. I installed a another fuel pressure regulator and replaced the return line. Could it be the pump or could it be how the tank hoses are connected or something up there? Thanks |
Yes. Your engine needs less than half of the capacity of that pump. It's very possible that your return lines or regulator are not large enough to bypass the amount of fuel needed to bring your pressure to where it needs to be. |
Actually, OEM pumps in good condition will show a 60 plus PSI reading if measured right off the pump.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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rosevillain
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 1290
Location: roseville, ca
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| Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| If the return line can't return enough fuel to regulate down, the pressure will be stupid high. The pump he showed is good for like 7-800 horsepower. |
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Tangerine
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016
Posts: 41
Location: North Central Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:43 pm Post subject: '71 Motor questions. |
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I just got a motor that came from a '71 Auto Square Back.
The motor code is U5002199
The brain code is 311 906 021 F (possibly E, sticker is scratched)
The TVS code is 311 906 051 F and a bit of oil comes out the vacuum port. Otherwise, it appears un-modified.
The wiring harness has a little bit of mouse damage, mostly around the distributor area, but is otherwise in pretty good shape. I have a NOS 'C' series FI harness. Would this work, or would it be better to repair the original?
I'm wanting to put this engine in a '68 that has the 'B' brain. Would it be better to install the engine with the later system or swap the 'B' system to the new engine? The current engine runs and the FI works pretty well, but the engine has a knock. I don't know if the '71 engine actually runs with it's FI system. I'll be taking everything off, and the tin, to clean everything and replace hoses/etc.
Thoughts/suggestions?
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68 Variant FI
71 SB Sedan
73 SB Cabriolet |
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