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johnfraser
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 492
Location: Isle of Wight
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 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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cheers chief! i just found it strange that the plates have the shapes of the bushes with the nobbly bits around the edges machined into them-but hey ill get the ones like on the site and ignore that
im on it this weekend but havent got new drums and need to figure out how to do my bearings (other thread) before its finished. fingers crossed |
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johnfraser
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 492
Location: Isle of Wight
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: |
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hi again
i am replacing the torsion arm bushes with urethane ones, as the old ones have had it.
i ordered both inner and outer but have been sent the 2" ones which are for adjustable spring plates which i dont have
this is on a lowered 64 beetle
can anyone have a look at this
http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_act_page.render_pageI...earchType=
and tell me which ones i need please? i dont know between the 1 7/8 and 1 3/4 ones and cant find out anywhere else. i cant measure the ones that were on because they are very worn and apparently they are the wrong ones anyway
if anyone could help that would be great
thank you |
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[email protected]
Banned
Joined: March 13, 2011
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| johnfraser wrote: |
hi again
i am replacing the torsion arm bushes with urethane ones, as the old ones have had it.
i ordered both inner and outer but have been sent the 2" ones which are for adjustable spring plates which i dont have
this is on a lowered 64 beetle
can anyone have a look at this
http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_act_page.render_pageI...earchType=
and tell me which ones i need please? i dont know between the 1 7/8 and 1 3/4 ones and cant find out anywhere else. i cant measure the ones that were on because they are very worn and apparently they are the wrong ones anyway
if anyone could help that would be great
thank you |
Most Bugs use 1 7/8" inside bushing and 1 3/4" outside bushing. Really you should just measure the diameter of the stub on your spring plates and get the appropriate sized bushings. |
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johnfraser
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 492
Location: Isle of Wight
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 am Post subject: |
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hi
after a few weeks on xmas and other bug bits i am back on this today, basically putting everything back on the bug.
so when i took the plates off the angle was 18 degrees, which i believe is standard. i have gone down what i believe to be two outer notches, which now leaves the original plates at about 1/2 degrees. therefore the plate unloaded is virtually horizontal. does this sound right?
ill be honest, i dont understand the numbers on the chart, ive tried to understand it but none of the numbers seem to make any sense to what im doing.
also, i know ideally id just put the bug back on wheels off the stands, check the stance and if its even both sides but there is no engine in the shell, well apart from a gearbox theres not alot at all. so the stance isnt going to look anywhere close to what it will when the weight is in the car.
so what im really looking to find out is: is that a realistic degree for dropping two outer notches so i can put this to bed for now, concentrate on the rest of the car, then when it comes to putting it back on wheels i can come back to it and check the stance and if i need to adjust it then.
thanks alot
[img][/img][/img] |
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Lidpainter
Samba Anti-Hero
Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 2045
Location: 41.77 | -83.56
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| johnfraser wrote: |
hi
after a few weeks on xmas and other bug bits i am back on this today, basically putting everything back on the bug.
so when i took the plates off the angle was 18 degrees, which i believe is standard. i have gone down what i believe to be two outer notches, which now leaves the original plates at about 1/2 degrees. therefore the plate unloaded is virtually horizontal. does this sound right?
ill be honest, i dont understand the numbers on the chart, ive tried to understand it but none of the numbers seem to make any sense to what im doing.
also, i know ideally id just put the bug back on wheels off the stands, check the stance and if its even both sides but there is no engine in the shell, well apart from a gearbox theres not alot at all. so the stance isnt going to look anywhere close to what it will when the weight is in the car.
so what im really looking to find out is: is that a realistic degree for dropping two outer notches so i can put this to bed for now, concentrate on the rest of the car, then when it comes to putting it back on wheels i can come back to it and check the stance and if i need to adjust it then.
thanks alot
[img][/img][/img] |
You might want to turn your backing plates back about 90 degrees.
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Thanks, time to bulk up on meat! |
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johnfraser
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 492
Location: Isle of Wight
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:00 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, it wasn't bolted to the spring plate when I took te picture though
Thanks anyway |
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Lidpainter
Samba Anti-Hero
Joined: January 21, 2004
Posts: 2045
Location: 41.77 | -83.56
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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That makes more sense. As far as angle goes, for me at least it was trial and error. The hardest part is making both sides even once you get one side right. I couldn't go by the amount of inner/outer turns because my pan had no torsion bars in it to begin with. If you're looking for a lowered but not crazy-low stance, I would start with installing a spring plate so that the lower edge hangs down just about 1/8" of an inch below the top edge of the stop. Take note the of the angle in case you are pleased and need to match the other side to it. Bolt everything up, install a tire and take it off the stand(s) so it's under load. Take a look and if you like it, move on to the other side. If not, go back in and rotate it a notch up or down until you do. Keep in mind that once it's on the ground and rolling, it will probably settle another inch or so.
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Thanks, time to bulk up on meat! |
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RareAir
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 14577
Location: 18 miles North of the border
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| Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Im using the chart shown above, but have a question. Which direction do I "clock" the spring plate? For example, my Left (drivers) side needs +1 inner spline rotation. Do I rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise?
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1947 Typ 11a
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1966 Typ 151
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hsosa1
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1897
Location: Fontana
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: |
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my passenger side rear . doesnt have any tension on the plate . i did do the jack underneath the springplate and picked it up over the bottom lip but i had a hell of a time getting the torsion bar in and the car. had to use longer bolts. after i put everything back the spring plate is still stiff no tension. a couple questions does anyone have a pic of using a inclometer angle finder on the spring plate. where do u place to check the spring plate angle and 2. how do u start on a base on the inner and outer spline s . do u measure the angle first and start from there? I need to get the tension back im thinking take everything apart and move the spring plate farther down to see if i can get the tension back ? the drivers side went on smooth no issues and has tension. passenger side a different story . no tension and has a tough time getting the spring plate cover bolted together . my rear passenger drum spun out and my tire is wearing .. ugg
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Just Cruzin Sur Califas VW Car Club est♤1998 |
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Northof49
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013
Posts: 1759
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Is the inner end of that torsion bar inserted far enough so that it engages its spines? You should be able to insert the inner end of the torsion bar, slide the swing arm over the outer end and measure the angle downwards. If it is engaged, you will find the spring plate / swing arm is rigid. It is that rigid position that you measure the angle of, and compare to your starting point. If should be downward to start because after you put the weight of the vehicle on it, it is going to come up a fair bit.
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1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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hsosa1
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1897
Location: Fontana
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:21 am Post subject: |
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yes it is all in the way in flush . I found this samba post which is helping me . looks like ill be re visisiting this weekend .. fricken hot here!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=576348
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Just Cruzin Sur Califas VW Car Club est♤1998 |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Make sure the splines on both ends of your torsion bar are CLEAN and oiled or greased.
It is possible to push the first inner side in too far. This will keep the second side from going in as far as it should.
In order to use an inclometer angle finder, you need to first make sure the chassis is level BOTH front to rear and side to side. Then and only then will the inclometer give you an accurate reading that you can make use of.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| hsosa1 wrote: |
| i had a hell of a time getting the torsion bar in and the car. had to use longer bolts. |
Whenever you take out the spring plate to adjust it a notch or two up or down, you need to remember to twist and move the inner and outer bushings a few degrees where they fit and key onto the torsion housing and covers too. The bushings are a tight fitting rubber, and want to stick and not rotate easily. If the four big nubs on the bushings aren't aligned with the notches where they seat and register into the torsion housing and cover, that can make the spring plates stick out too far and make the cover hard to get started, as well as make it hard to make accurate adjustments.
To help ease the friction, take the bushings off and dust them liberally on the inside and also the spring plate where they seat with talcum or baby powder. Try to keep it totally off the greased splines both inside and out, but dust them down all around the outsides, and dust the notched areas inside of the torsion housing and cover too. If you have a little plastic bottle of powder, experiment until you can squeeze it for small controlled puffs of dust right where it's needed.
Wanted to go down an inch or so in the back myself recently, and had to do it twice to get it just right. Didn't powder the old original bushings (which "looked" good) the first time, but found out when I took it apart the second time, the bushing nubs had gotten torn/cracked because I had to force the covers back on.
For that reason, and for all the trouble it takes, I recommend you go back in with all four new bushings so you get a good, long lasting and consistent result side to side.
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-Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Rad-mobile
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2012
Posts: 22
Location: Garage, Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Does anybody have much experienece adjusting inner splines? I lowered my beetle about 3 years ago and since then, the left side of the car has been slightly lower and actually looks better then the right side. As I learned more and more about the suspension of these vehicles, I remembered that I had accidentally pulled the torsion bar completely out of its housing on the left side when I first lowered it, but ignorantly just shoved it back in and pressed on. I am thinking I can adjust the right side inner splines just to level it out with the left side. Does anyone know how to accurately adjust the inner splines? Or just a matter of pull it out, adjust, and check with angle finder until it matches the left side? Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.
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'60 panel
'68 UK RHD Beetle |
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Ace
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2003
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Find a level spot and measure from a consistant spot on both sides and see how far off you are. You can then do tuning adjustments on the side you want to match to make them match heights.
One inner spline clockwise and one out counter clockwise drops you 5.5 millimeters. That's how fine you can adjust. You can just go by the chart and adjust it directly to match. |
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Rad-mobile
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2012
Posts: 22
Location: Garage, Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Cool thanks for that. I've printed the chart. So there is so specific way to go about it? Just adjust, put it all together and check. Then do it again if it's still not level?
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'60 panel
'68 UK RHD Beetle |
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[email protected]
Banned
Joined: March 13, 2011
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Rad-mobile wrote: |
| Cool thanks for that. I've printed the chart. So there is so specific way to go about it? Just adjust, put it all together and check. Then do it again if it's still not level? |
The easiest way and the safest is to install drop plates that have already been engineered for lowered VWs. With drop plates your car will ride and feel even better that a factory VW despite the drop, plus the installation is a lot simpler than trying to calculate and remember "clicks" to lower. This method is the old school way that was practiced before the movement of drop plates. There is an entire thread on this subject: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=455139&start=0
Just a heads up to ya that most of the advice I have seen given to you has been by the people who wish to keep us in the dark ages, so take their advice with a grain of salt and come to your best educated conclusion. Or just ask the thousands of people who are already driving on drop plates and LOVING them.
Special shout our to Larry Arrieta who is in the new September issue of Hot VW. Larry 100% swears by these plates and was able to install them himself despite that he is not a mechanic. Congrats Larry! |
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[email protected]
Banned
Joined: March 13, 2011
Posts: 392
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Germanpride wrote: |
| Lee. wrote: |
| Does anyone have a template or dimensions for notching the springplates? |
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| owokie wrote: |
| I can't be the only one who thinks bugs look like sh*t when people lower the rear by screwing with the splines. It looks like the car is trying to take a dump. Not to mention the increased tire wear and the decreased safety as your contact patch is now halved. Honestly, if I wanted to lower my car I certainly wouldn't do it this way. Can't you get a late model double jointed tranny and do it that way? |
I was digging though the archives and saw this and had to chuckle in agreement. Some of the safety compromising stuff that I have seen suggested by self appointed authorities on the subject is baffling if not downright ignorant. Look... removing material like the above drawings recommend is asking for disaster, and I don't care if it is even recommended in passing conversation by people who have done it. Because what is not talked about is the failure that occurs and the magnitude of it. Usually these conversations are saved for me when my customers admit to me they screwed up and after the wreckage they decide to buy our engineered plates. Tell me I'm wrong. Owokie, good call. For further information on this subject visit: http://atomwerk.org/suspension_tech.html |
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OLDBUGPROJECT
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2011
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:29 pm Post subject: rear lowering question |
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I just re installed my torsion bars and pre set the angle to 15 degrees. As far as I know thats pretty low. Can anyone give me an estimated drop in inches? Im doing this for the first time. If I need to raise it I have the body off so it will be easier I suppose. I was looking to go 2 notches/splines down originally. I settled on 15 degrees. So before I go any further can someone lend me a hand?
Thanks! |
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Dr OnHolliday
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2012
Posts: 1215
Location: was Escondido now San Berdoo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Someone should revise that drop chart to factor in costs of broken rear drums, wheel bearing failures and loss of tire mileage at appropriate points...
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust |
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