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rterfert Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2003 Posts: 1419 Location: Yuma Arizona
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject: What is a set of used Kadrons worth these days?? |
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The set I am looking at is on a running 1835cc VW
40? 44? don't know....would it even matter?
Thanks for the input. |
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oc63rag Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2003 Posts: 2625 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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It depends largely on the condition. Are they freshly rebuilt and rebushed? I've seen most sets going for $150-250. _________________ Designed for four soldiers and a machine gun...also for family use.
My food baby is crowning. |
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steve34 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2004 Posts: 490
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: go with 40idfs |
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kadrons are entry level junk. Just get some 40 hpmx carbs from cp1 |
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Migit Banned
Joined: July 09, 2004 Posts: 831 Location: Central Illinois
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Kadrons are alot better than any HPMX carb. Easier to tune, cheaper to get parts for, faster to set up.
I personally have sent 3 sets of 44's back because the shafts were loose straight out of the box. Just remember Glenns words.... Every Mistake Passes Inspection _________________ Looking for a 58 euro hardtop! |
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steve34 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2004 Posts: 490
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: a thing of beauty |
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Was it Dean Lowery who first made manifolds to mount 48idas to a bug motor? The real vw deal is one port one venturi. Kadrons were an after thought. Like I have said before, they were entry level distractions in the 70s and they still are. Penny wise pound foolish. Spend a little mor and get some idfs. the reason why they are so cheap is because once you have bought them you want to sell them. One tune port one tuned venturi . Well then again you can lead a horse to water! |
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miniman82 Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005 Posts: 9515 Location: Southern Maryland
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Paging Mr. Kadron, now paging Mr. Kadron! _________________ Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
Glenn wrote: |
satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: Re: go with 40idfs |
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steve34 wrote: |
kadrons are entry level junk. Just get some 40 hpmx carbs from cp1 |
It's the HPMX that are junk. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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A.J.Sims Banned
Joined: December 11, 2003 Posts: 1016 Location: LowBugget.com 982 N Batavia A4 Orange Ca 92867
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Look up in the air, is that bird?, a plain?... no its the front of a bug!!!
Its.. "MR KADRON"
Sorry, this one some how got past me.
99.9% of the kits we get into our shop that are used or new will not work out of the box or the owner has taken them off the deep end!
its not the carb, its how the 'smart guy" has tried to make them work.
For some people they would rather point a finger and past blame than spend some time to solve the problem.
Plenum base carb setup is not easy to takle. if you don't know what your doing, your stupidity becomes more pronounced.
as for the price $100-$400 for a std 40mm kits
46mm kits range from $300 to $500
and the 48mm kits range from $400 to $600
It will depend on what you have? _________________ Have tech questions? Need real help? Give us a call.
www.Lowbugget.com
982 North Batavia A4, Orange Ca 92867.
68 drag bug 1915cc 10.50's @130mph
66 fastback 2387cc turbo street car
67 baja 2054cc turbo. |
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cal63look Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006 Posts: 1027 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Migit wrote: |
Kadrons are alot better than any HPMX carb. Easier to tune, cheaper to get parts for, faster to set up.
I personally have sent 3 sets of 44's back because the shafts were loose straight out of the box. Just remember Glenns words.... Every Mistake Passes Inspection |
First off EMPI does not make the carbs!! Havent you read teh yellow and blue box they come in it says Brosal! so get it straight before you go to slander and bash something. Empi produces the manifolds though. I think a lot of people have issues with parts because 1. they dont know how to install them. 2. they install them but not correctly. 3. I dont care who makes what aftermarket part, somewhere along the line they need a little work here or there, thats why they are tagged aftermarket parts. |
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cal63look Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006 Posts: 1027 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you cant get a set of Kads up and running, then you sure as hell arent ever going to get a set of webers or delorto's running right. Unless you get some baby 34ict's. |
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propflux01 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2006 Posts: 501 Location: Central Arkansastan
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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OK, before this gets into a full blown Kadron Vs. EMPI carb war, how about telling what are the bennies and downfalls of each? in other words, for those that want to go dual one-barrels, which ones are best? |
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sweetlokin66 Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2006 Posts: 1220 Location: Luftwagenville, FLDuh
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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ive been running dual hpmx's for a year 0 problems. i did however buy cb perf intakes and throttle linkage so im only using the original carbs. maybe i got lucky _________________ Follow IG for more content @greyarearacing
Turbo type 4
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=134157
66 NA hard top
****Insert event here**** |
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antique opa Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2006 Posts: 56 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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propflux01 wrote: |
OK, before this gets into a full blown Kadron Vs. EMPI carb war, how about telling what are the bennies and downfalls of each? in other words, for those that want to go dual one-barrels, which ones are best? |
KAD 40'S
SCAT 35'S
34 ICT'S
CB 34 SOLEX'S
?????????????????????????? _________________ Think fast or be last. |
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steve34 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2004 Posts: 490
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: Bennies |
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propflux01 wrote: |
OK, before this gets into a full blown Kadron Vs. EMPI carb war, how about telling what are the bennies and downfalls of each? in other words, for those that want to go dual one-barrels, which ones are best? |
The Weber 40 idf has 2 venturis, 2 seprate idle jets, 2 seperate main jets, etc. All these components are readily available.
The carbs can be profiled for several performance levels from mild small engines to large cammed monster motors.
a fella can build a mild 1776 with smaller heads and adjust his venturi diameter to achieve best running charateristics. The manifolds are larger and can be ported for flow. Larger engines can use the larger venturis etc. Of course one can do the same to some single barrels.
If I wanted only 2 barrels, I would stay with a weber progressive.
The true Hot VW runs one venturi per barrell.
remember fellas and gals who are true VW enthusiasts can build a bug motor in there sleep, and have a stack of Hot VWs in their will. The enthusiast starts out building 1641s and ends up building a 2387 on their kitchen table.
I do not know where corporate memory went, but Dual throat Webers are the standard of the industry , always have been and always will be.
The 48IDA is the king.
Kadrons are entry level for smaller motors and thats it.
great for torquey bus motors and 1776s etc.
It is all a matter a marketing and preference. Most defend their choices because they cant afford to step up to the plate.
When Webers are kept clean and balanced, their is no replacement.
a large stroker with a merged exhaust and a set of IDAs is a thing of beauty.
When I see a set of Kadrons, I say to myself" damn he could have got a set of 40 or 44 HMPXs for $150 more and never had to buy another set.
But then I am the bad guy and its shoot the messenger.
I know there are guys who have doen some spectacular things with the kadrons.
Personally I could care less.
so Whatever |
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cal63look Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006 Posts: 1027 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Bennies |
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steve34 wrote: |
propflux01 wrote: |
OK, before this gets into a full blown Kadron Vs. EMPI carb war, how about telling what are the bennies and downfalls of each? in other words, for those that want to go dual one-barrels, which ones are best? |
The Weber 40 idf has 2 venturis, 2 seprate idle jets, 2 seperate main jets, etc. All these components are readily available.
The carbs can be profiled for several performance levels from mild small engines to large cammed monster motors.
a fella can build a mild 1776 with smaller heads and adjust his venturi diameter to achieve best running charateristics. The manifolds are larger and can be ported for flow. Larger engines can use the larger venturis etc. Of course one can do the same to some single barrels.
If I wanted only 2 barrels, I would stay with a weber progressive.
The true Hot VW runs one venturi per barrell.
remember fellas and gals who are true VW enthusiasts can build a bug motor in there sleep, and have a stack of Hot VWs in their will. The enthusiast starts out building 1641s and ends up building a 2387 on their kitchen table.
I do not know where corporate memory went, but Dual throat Webers are the standard of the industry , always have been and always will be.
The 48IDA is the king.
Kadrons are entry level for smaller motors and thats it.
great for torquey bus motors and 1776s etc.
It is all a matter a marketing and preference. Most defend their choices because they cant afford to step up to the plate.
When Webers are kept clean and balanced, their is no replacement.
a large stroker with a merged exhaust and a set of IDAs is a thing of beauty.
When I see a set of Kadrons, I say to myself" damn he could have got a set of 40 or 44 HMPXs for $150 more and never had to buy another set.
But then I am the bad guy and its shoot the messenger.
I know there are guys who have doen some spectacular things with the kadrons.
Personally I could care less.
so Whatever |
I agree with the above but i must say AJ Sims has proven himself and kadrons. I plan to keep my kads and just upgrade as needed. With bigger parts like the venturies and jetting.
But im not saying webers arent good either. Same goes, there's no replacement for displacement ie. two barrels each head when compared to a single throat. |
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jamestwo Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 2203
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bennies |
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Weber does not make HPMX carbs,
steve34 wrote: |
propflux01 wrote: |
OK, before this gets into a full blown Kadron Vs. EMPI carb war, how about telling what are the bennies and downfalls of each? in other words, for those that want to go dual one-barrels, which ones are best? |
The Weber 40 idf has 2 venturis, 2 seprate idle jets, 2 seperate main jets, etc. All these components are readily available.
The carbs can be profiled for several performance levels from mild small engines to large cammed monster motors.
a fella can build a mild 1776 with smaller heads and adjust his venturi diameter to achieve best running charateristics. The manifolds are larger and can be ported for flow. Larger engines can use the larger venturis etc. Of course one can do the same to some single barrels.
If I wanted only 2 barrels, I would stay with a weber progressive.
The true Hot VW runs one venturi per barrell.
remember fellas and gals who are true VW enthusiasts can build a bug motor in there sleep, and have a stack of Hot VWs in their will. The enthusiast starts out building 1641s and ends up building a 2387 on their kitchen table.
I do not know where corporate memory went, but Dual throat Webers are the standard of the industry , always have been and always will be.
The 48IDA is the king.
Kadrons are entry level for smaller motors and thats it.
great for torquey bus motors and 1776s etc.
It is all a matter a marketing and preference. Most defend their choices because they cant afford to step up to the plate.
When Webers are kept clean and balanced, their is no replacement.
a large stroker with a merged exhaust and a set of IDAs is a thing of beauty.
When I see a set of Kadrons, I say to myself" damn he could have got a set of 40 or 44 HMPXs for $150 more and never had to buy another set.
But then I am the bad guy and its shoot the messenger.
I know there are guys who have doen some spectacular things with the kadrons.
Personally I could care less.
so Whatever |
_________________ hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY. |
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cal63look Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006 Posts: 1027 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yep, i missed that. Empi does make the weber clones but they dont make kadrons. Hell i dont mind some empi parts but i wouldnt buy those. I would rather find a good rebuildable set of some italian webers. |
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steve34 Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2004 Posts: 490
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: Hmpxs are made in a chinese labor camp for empi |
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jamestwo wrote: |
Weber does not make HPMX carbs,
I didnt think they did. Just like everything else they are made in China.
I have to bow out this is petty.
steve34 wrote: |
propflux01 wrote: |
OK, before this gets into a full blown Kadron Vs. EMPI carb war, how about telling what are the bennies and downfalls of each? in other words, for those that want to go dual one-barrels, which ones are best? |
The Weber 40 idf has 2 venturis, 2 seprate idle jets, 2 seperate main jets, etc. All these components are readily available.
The carbs can be profiled for several performance levels from mild small engines to large cammed monster motors.
a fella can build a mild 1776 with smaller heads and adjust his venturi diameter to achieve best running charateristics. The manifolds are larger and can be ported for flow. Larger engines can use the larger venturis etc. Of course one can do the same to some single barrels.
If I wanted only 2 barrels, I would stay with a weber progressive.
The true Hot VW runs one venturi per barrell.
remember fellas and gals who are true VW enthusiasts can build a bug motor in there sleep, and have a stack of Hot VWs in their will. The enthusiast starts out building 1641s and ends up building a 2387 on their kitchen table.
I do not know where corporate memory went, but Dual throat Webers are the standard of the industry , always have been and always will be.
The 48IDA is the king.
Kadrons are entry level for smaller motors and thats it.
great for torquey bus motors and 1776s etc.
It is all a matter a marketing and preference. Most defend their choices because they cant afford to step up to the plate.
When Webers are kept clean and balanced, their is no replacement.
a large stroker with a merged exhaust and a set of IDAs is a thing of beauty.
When I see a set of Kadrons, I say to myself" damn he could have got a set of 40 or 44 HMPXs for $150 more and never had to buy another set.
But then I am the bad guy and its shoot the messenger.
I know there are guys who have doen some spectacular things with the kadrons.
Personally I could care less.
so Whatever |
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rterfert Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2003 Posts: 1419 Location: Yuma Arizona
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ok so far IF I buy this car for the motor.....Sell the kadrons for the first $150 that comes by and get a single weber IDF 40 and manifold.
Got it |
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jamestwo Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 2203
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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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It's not petty.
People take what you say on spend $$$$ on the advice that YOU hand out!!
Webers are good carbs, THe empi hmpx are not. BIG difference.
If you don't know, then don't reply. _________________ hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY. |
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