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RCB
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:40 pm    Post subject: let there be light Reply with quote

I saw a TV commercial for the Osram Sylvania Halogen headlights.
Any opinions on them? Mines an 82 A/C Westy and Im looking for a little more light up front.
Im not interested in the conversion upgrades, just some more light.
Do they draw the same amount of juice and do they run as "cool" as the 12volt originals?
Thankx,RCB Orange Bus
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Waldemar Sikorski
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No info on those but see if you can get SilverStars to fit. You might have to upgrade with relays.
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Basilbomb
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the relay upgrade and put in silverstars. AMAZING.
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cheekoman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Guys, can you post a link to where you got the relay and the silverstars? I do alot of night driving in VT and it would be great to actually see the deer before I hit them!

Thanks! Wink
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RCB
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings again, Why do I need any relays if its a drop in kind of headlight ? Can you elaborate please?
Cheekoman, I Googled Sylvania about the information on the lights.Its unfortunate that they havent mentioned anything about the relays.
They tell you everything about what lights go where but nothing about the relay Evil or Very Mad
Thankx
RCB
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Waldemar Sikorski
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you upgrade lights, usually going higher watt output you risk the chance of frying your light switch, hence the upgrade.
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Waldemar Sikorski
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a wire from this red thick wire to position 30 on both relays and I ran another wire from position 85 on both relays to the earth block located in the wall of the camper just above the fuse box. Now I need the high beam and low beam wires coming from the turn signal/dimmer switch located behind the steering wheel cover, I followed the 2 wires - white and yellow. At approximately 20 centimeters from the fuse box I cut both the wires. Now the end of the yellow wire which coming from the fuse box I attached it at position 87 in one of the relays and I attached the other end of the yellow wire which coming from the turn signal/dimmer switch to the position 86 of the same relay. I did the same with the white wire, e result was terrific, nice bright headlight, and I did even fit those blue Xenon light bulbs

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Basilbomb
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can buy the relay kit from several famous vendors, or just go to a big box automotive/hardware store and pcik up a couple of generic 30 amp relays for five bucks each, and some heavy gauge wire. But do it; it's easy and you won't be disappointed.
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fuzzymath
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading about this mod on the Impreza forums (since it's the only way to get brighter lights and run more wattage regardless of what you're driving) and everyone is insisting on paying $50+ for kits with top-notch Hella relays and gold plated shovel head connectors. Rolling Eyes

Personally, I have a hard time paying someone 4 times as much money as something I can buy at the local auto parts store and assemble myself, I mean I already have to read how to install it Shocked , I may as well do some cutting, stripping, and crimping while I'm at it.

BTW, here is a great article about Sylvania Silverstars. Evidently, they are not such a bright idea. They have a coating that makes them appear brighter because they filter out the blue spectrum, but when compared with a lumen meter they were actually 23% darker than the the tester's OEM Subaru bulb(NASIOC Forum).
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Basilbomb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stopped reading the article after the first two paragraphs. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about, at least not from what he says in the beginning. First he talks about how orange and yellow translates into lower wattage, which is true. But he goes on about a "blue filter", which by definition, filters blue light. If you filter the blue light, you are left with the longer wavelengths, so the light appears warmer. Hi wattage= high temperature, which equals more blue in the light. The bluer the hotter. If there was any filtering going on, it would be a red/orange filter, leaving yellow/green/indigo/violet.

But if you did filter out the lower part of the spectrum, you would get blue. Just blue. That's how they make blue lights. In order for a lamp to appear white you have to have all parts of the light spectrum. The intense blue white you get from hi performance lamps comes from the presence of high violet and ultraviolet which is produced at high temperatures. This is why halogen lamps don't look like regular incandescent bulbs -they throw out much more in the high end of the visible spectrum. The hotter the filament, the more of these higher wavelengths. You cannot create these wavelengths with filters - only with temperature.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, all done. I spent approximately $20 and about an hour and a half running to various shops and installing.

I am going to write a very straightforward how-to with without any unnecessary information. This tech is for '86 and up Vanagons. AFAIK the earlier models require a different procedure.

Here is a list of what you will need: Everything can be found at Schuck's Auto Supply, Kragen, Auto Zone, or the like.

- (2) 30amp relays. These are either found with all of the electrical stuff or by the off-road light stuff. They will be around $6 each. Make sure that on the back they have terminals that say "30", "85", "86", and "87". They probably will have two "87" terminals on the back but sometimes don't. It's OK if they only have one "87" terminal because you only need one.

- A foot of #12 gauge and two feet of #14 gauge. You can probably get away with using #12 for everything if you want but don't skimp and only use #14. Any color, doesn't matter.

- (16) 1/4" female spade connectors(blue) Just buy the #14-#16 gauge size because they will work on #12 gauge wire as well. Definitely buy the ones that cover the exposed metal so they don't spark off on anything.

- Crimpers/strippers/snippers

- Some of those tiny zip ties


Ok, so here is the easiest way to go about it:


1) Cut two lengths of the #12 gauge wire to 6". Put the female spade connectors on the ends of each wire.

2) Cut two lengths of #14 gauge wire to 12". Put the female spade connectors on all the ends of these as well.

3) Look at the back of your new relays. Put the 6" wires on the "30" terminals and the 12" wires on the "85" terminals. Just so you know, at no point do you ever connect wires from one relay to the other. They are totally separate.

4) Disconnect the negative battery cable.

5) Remove the fuse box cover and take out the two screws on the bottom edge holding the fuses in place.

6) Pull the jumble of wires toward you and try to find the two big, fat red wires that plug into the corner of the back of the fuse box. See all of the unused terminals that they are plugged in next to? Plug each of your 6" wires into a free terminal. Those are the positive terminals.

7) Now look above the fuse box and you will see to your upper left a bunch of free terminals that are connected to the chassis. Those are the negative grounds. Plug each of the 12" wires to a free terminal up there.

8 ) Now take the plastic cover off your steering column. There are some screws holding it together.

9) Coming out of your turn-signal/high beam switch are some wires. They will be covered in a sheathing. Follow the big, fat yellow and white wires out of there down to where they meet the fuse box. Clip the zip ties if you need to to free up those wires.

10) Ok, now we are only going to focus on the white wire for now. Clip the wire around 6-7" inches up from where it meets the fuse box. Put female spade connectors on each of the new ends.

11) Pick one relay... that is now the dedicated white relay. Connect the white wire that comes down from the blinker/high beam switch to the "86" terminal on the white relay. Connect the white wire up from the fuse box to the "87" terminal on the white relay.

12) OK, now for the other relay...the yellow relay. Do the same thing that you just did with the white wires to the yellow wire. The yellow wire down from the blinker/high beam switch goes to the "86" and the yellow wire up from the fuses to the "87".

13) Put the screws back into the fuse box and reconnect the cable on your battery because you are done. I just stuffed my relays up in there. You might want to use some 3M brand VHB tape to adhere your relays somewhere or utilize the screw tab that are sometimes molded into the relay casing.

Enjoy your much brighter headlights. Very Happy


P.S. You might have to move up a fuse size if you put in higher wattage headlights.
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Last edited by fuzzymath on Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how you managed to get any brighter lamps when you didn't even power up the relays, nor did you ground them.

You should have spent another hour driving around and got yourself a pair of relay plates to mount them correctly to the top of the fuse box.

Having the relay's bouncing around up under the dash is the Kentucky wiring method.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why do I need any relays if its a drop in kind of headlight ?


and

Quote:
If you upgrade lights, usually going higher watt output you risk the chance of frying your light switch, hence the upgrade.


The OEM lightswitch is inadequate to the installed hi-beam wattage as it is. If you remove your stock switch and disassemble it (which I don't recommend because it's a bitch to get it back together, but when you replace it, which you will, it's a great time to learn what its weakness is), you would see how resistive it is to current. You already need relays for the stock wattage high beams, and if you increase wattage, you will burn the switch contactor posthaste. Just adding relays to a stock setup will result in noticeably brighter light output, and a shift to blue.

Nice work on the diagrams and instructions, Waldemar and fuzzy. They oughta go in the stickys, I think. It would be nice to mount up the relays like Terry sez, but, hell, mine just sit up there atop the mass of wires, too. They won't be any the worse for riding around on top of that nice big bed.

Basilbomb said:
Quote:
First he talks about how orange and yellow translates into lower wattage, which is true.


Raising or lowering the voltage available at a given incandescent filament will raise or lower the light temperature, resulting in a shift to blue or red, respectively. I'm only referring to incandescent lights, here. Of course varying voltage will result in varying wattage, since amperage doesn't change in a given circuit.

Quote:
Hi wattage= high temperature, which equals more blue in the light


Forgive me if I'm nitpicking, but this isn't exactly true across the board. Just replacing an existing bulb with one of higher wattage will not necessarily result in a bluer light color, which is the impression some could get from what you are saying. A bulb rated at a higher wattage will give the temperature of color that it is designed to give, irrespective of whatever it is replacing. It will use more amperage, which is why the relays are needed, since the OEM circuit can't pass the hi-beam amps as it is, resulting in the drop in voltage that makes te stock bulbs dimmer and redder than they should be.

I'm afraid that people reading that might think that if they upgrade their headlights, they will automatically get bluer lights, and some folks might not like that idea and decide not to upgrade. The OEM lighting setup is feeble, and I think that we'd all be safer if we made improvements to it.

The relay kits are sold at such a high price because they've done the running around a finding out how to do the wiring for you. You can do the job for $15 if you do the legwork, or get a nice kit with the wires cut and the crimps done and a set of instructions. Most things are that way.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure about this "Blue Light" thing.

When I got the adequate voltage to the headlamp sockets, and installed 80/100's in the main beams, and 100's in the high, the pavement out in front of my Vans beacame whiter & brighter.

I wondered where the yellow went---

I like the idea of having the relays clipped into the top of the fuse box as the accessory relays are mounted stock outa the box.

It just a neater installation.

But that's just me.

I hate rattles that you wonder where in the heck they are coming from.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'd love to have them hardmounted, too, but the nifty little dovetails Bosch uses are going to be hard to find in a 3rd-world country like NM. My relays have mounting ears as part of the plastic casing, but I didn't feel like messing with my drill up in there when they settled so nicely, and I would say pretty securely, atop the massive bundle of wires up high ahead of the fusebox.

TK, your old lights would have looked red while they were getting the lowered voltage they used to get via the stock switch. If they now look whiter, that is a shift toward blue (hotter color temp, as Basilbomb correctly explained, shifts color toward blue. White is a balanced mix of all the visible colors). Having the bulbs now receive their full rated voltage, whether the OEM ones or higher-wattage new ones, gives the "white" light they were designed to give.

If your voltage regulator were to give out and start overcharging, they would then get bluer.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got bored today, think I'll make some relays Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
I'm not sure how you managed to get any brighter lamps when you didn't even power up the relays, nor did you ground them.

You should have spent another hour driving around and got yourself a pair of relay plates to mount them correctly to the top of the fuse box.

Having the relay's bouncing around up under the dash is the Kentucky wiring method.


They are powered. If they weren't then I wouldn't have had working headlights when I drove to the monster truck show last, which BTW was reeeal goood!

As I previously stated, plug your 6" #12 wires that are connected to the "30" terminals on your relays in the fuse box into the empty terminals by where the two big red wires are attached. then plug the 12" #14 gauge wires into the grounds to the upper left of the fuse box. Am I wrong or do the relays not have power now? I plan on VHBing the relays to the fuse box at a later date.
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Last edited by fuzzymath on Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are loads of Bosch relays with harness sockets available on eBay, for example a 5 pack:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-PACK-12V-DC-20-30...4991QQrdZ1
for $13, with somewhat steep shipping. However if you search around, I got my pair for $5 with the sockets with a little patience on ebay.
Last year someone had used existing free relay spaces on the fuse block (86 and newer) and wired it in from the back, creating a very clean install. A diligent search would pull it up. I wish I had taken his route, but I had already done mine by that point. If you have AC and power windows and such, the amount of stuff dovtailed into the top of the fuse block gets a wee bit on the tall and on the unwieldily side.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at Discount AP, the VW salvage yard in Albuquerque the other day. I love it when Trey tells me I can go out back and fetch something myself. I've always been a junkyard junkie. They forget all about me, and an hour or so later I always wander back in with my hands full of juicy bits I turn up from his many wrecked vans.

So on this trip, I noticed a 40A 4-pin SPST Bosch relay. P/N 141 951 253B. This was the 2nd stage rad fan relay for a late van. It is the one with a big "53" printed on top.

Since the upgrade to 80/100 lows and 100w highs results in a total hi-beam load of 400w, that means there is 33.3A current (400w/12V=33.3A). That is 10% over the 30A rating on relays most of us have installed as part of our hi-watage headlamp upgrades. So I'm going to swap this 40A for my 30A hi-beam relay, so the current is within the spec of the relay and it won't be heat-stressed.

Just something to remember next time you're at the wrecker's, or parting out a van.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out my '87 had another of these 40A relays in space 6, unused. So the best hi-beam relay may already be in your car, take a look.
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