356 engine in early Ghia

[philoo]

Hi all,

As I want to drive my Ghia, I was looking for solutions to get some more HP, but I also wanted to save the Vintage spirit of the car. I looked at Okrasa or Denzel solutions but my mechanic told me "You will spent a fortune to get at the best 40 or 50HP, with no good reliability".

So, we thought at the idea to install a quiet "Dame" engine from a 356 A that offers 60 HP with total reliability and that is totally in the spirit of the period of lowlights.

And, considerable advantage, a 60hp is significantly cheaper thant an Okrasa or Denzel engine.

So, I have some questions regarding installation :

- Is a 60 hp with its 180mm clutch plug and play on a 58 Splitcase tranny ?

- Does the 60hp enter Ghia rear compartment without cutting anything in the car (I am planning to cut engine tins)

- Does air filters enters rear compartement without any problem (rear decklid height or hinges). I remember that Karmann Okrasa engines need specific air cleaners and that Judson needs cutting the deck...




NB: I asked similare question before the website crash and somebody answered me, but I never could read the answer because of the crash...

[Lind]

[tri356]

I have a 356 engine in my '63 ghia. Although I definitely like it, I'm not sure I would go this route again. It has taken a lot of time and effort to get it correct, and I'm still working on some details.

Here is a website that covers the conversion:

http://www.bayarea.net/~diddler/black-sheep/fiasco.htm

The one area that Ryan doesn't cover is the muffler - you have a couple of options:

a) take a 356 muffler and do some major cutting/welding on it to make it fit. Having this very large can close to your rear apron may cause some paint discoloration in the long run - certainly the metal gets very hot.

b) buy an extractor exhaust which should fit without a problem

Another area is the interference between the right valve cover and the rail for the engine seal. On my '63, this was very close - a little of the metal had to be 'persuaded' out to make room and make sure the two pieces did not rub against each other. I believe the different year ghias vary slightly in this area so this may be easier in the later ghias (larger engine opening) than in the earlier ones.

Also, there's the subject of air filters. If you have a later 356 engine equipped with Solex carbs and mesh Solex air filters, you will have no problems getting the decklid to close. If however, you have a 356 engine equipped with Zenith carbs, I believe the later black canisters will be too tall and you would not be able to close the lid. You may need to switch over to the Zenith mesh filters, which are a little shorter.

Finally, as far as taking the engine out without removing the carbs is concerned, this would be a tough job with the Solex carb'ed engine. I have done it once. It required jacking the car very high up and tilting the engine at funny angles to get it to drop down through the opening. A total of three people were used for that job. In my case, I think it's easier to remove the carbs and one of the manifolds to complete the job. All that being said, I don't know what the situation is if you'd use a Zenith carb'ed engine.

Mike

[philoo]

The 356 engine I am looking at is the quiet 60hp, with the 32 NDIX Zenith carburetors and large air filters.

Your answer are very interesting. Mike, do you any pictures to show for the engine in your '63 ?

[tri356]

I will snap a couple of pictures and post them tonight.

Mike

[LANGEBERG]

www.hoshenriksen.dk

[tri356]

Here you go:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/331925.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/331926.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/331927.jpg

Mike

[philoo]

Really interesting pictures from Mike and Henrik website both.

Mike, would you have pictures about your muffler fitting and mods ?

[bt]

tri356,

I am thinking about doing this to my Ghia. I already own all the parts from a 68 912 w 48,000 miles.

Why is it that you wouldn't do this again?

bryan

[tri356]

[bt]

Thanks for your reply Mike.

I had planned on using a header system as I didnt think the 356 muffler would fit.

I was going to install the 5spd trans from the 912 to avoid the clutch questions.

I can weld and fab parts so thats wont be an issue for me. However I do understand how all of these "improvements" prevent me from driving the car. I have been FN around with this thing (off and on) for a few years and I tired of changing it.

I bought a 04 Shuby turbo that I was going to use. My car is customed(944 brakes, flared qp's 356 frontend) but I really dont need that much power for a driver. If I start that, I know I'll need the better part of a year to finish it. I was just going to sell all of the parts from the 912 but I would still need to buy/build a "good" engine for the Ghia. To put together something reasonable that I would like, it would cost around $2000-$3500, so I might as well keep what I already have.

bryan

[65 356C]

Years ago before there were plentiful hop up parts for VW's, many were running 356 engines. It is now hard to justify the expense of a 356 engine. A properly built 1776 can deliver much the same hp. But there are those that like the challenge of doing something that is a bit unique and welcome the challenge of dealing with the few issues involved in such a conversion: clutch, fitting cooling tin, exhaust, air cleaners that don't interfere with deck springs,proper heat, proper cooling and throttle linkage. Many of the issues can be solved with readily available parts. I am in the process of doing this mod and find that I am able to use 356 flywheel (properly machined depth) with VW clutch and mated TO bearing; the Bursch 356 exhaust and modified Webber air cleaners leave plenty of room; careful trimming/fitting of engine tin helps seal engine compartment; the use of late model 356 "heater cans" with levers and extra set of pull cables will give me heat and using a Gene Berg full flow filter will help longevity. The real test will be to put this all together and make it look like it was a factory job. Sure beats some other hobbies I can think of.

[philoo]