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Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

The wheels with a beetle offset are tough to use on a lowered bus without narrowing the front, or using tiny tires. Stock bus wheels will fit much better.

You could try a 185/50R15 tire up front. 195/60r15 is perfect for the rear.
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nvmipis1
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Front is 165/50/15
Rear is 195/60/15

Rides like a champ! And not tubbed!
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

^^^ Narrowed beam?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

Yes...4inch
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EeVeeWee
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

I can't find it till now, so I will ask here.
Does anybody know the standard stroke of a 1967 stock front beam?
With other words, when the bus is lifted, how much space must there be above the front wheels?
To be sure they will never touch the metal of the bus.
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EeVeeWee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

EeVeeWee wrote:
I can't find it till now, so I will ask here.
Does anybody know the standard stroke of a 1967 stock front beam?
With other words, when the bus is lifted, how much space must there be above the front wheels?
To be sure they will never touch the metal of the bus.


OK question is not clear maybe.
What is the stroke before the arm hits the mechanical stop upwards (without the rubber) from completely down?
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mandraks
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

EeVeeWee wrote:

OK question is not clear maybe.
What is the stroke before the arm hits the mechanical stop upwards (without the rubber) from completely down?


i think this could be determined with the help of a calculator, measuring tape and a straight edge.
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EeVeeWee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
EeVeeWee wrote:

OK question is not clear maybe.
What is the stroke before the arm hits the mechanical stop upwards (without the rubber) from completely down?


i think this could be determined with the help of a calculator, measuring tape and a straight edge.


Of course, but maybe someone knows the answer already. Wink
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easy e
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

EeVeeWee wrote:
How much space must there be above the front wheels?
To be sure they will never touch the metal of the bus.
EeVeeWee wrote:
What is the stroke before the arm hits the mechanical stop upwards (without the rubber) from completely down?
What is it you are actually trying to determine?

Your first quoted question makes is seem like you don't want to rub your tire on the bus' wheel well. If that's true... it all depends on wheel / tire size.
Well, and... how much it's lowered or raised.

You need to pick one variable to isolate.

Then, you're talking about the torsion arm stop (without rubber). Getting a little picky. But, this also depends on if a stock beam or adjustable.... broken leaves or all good leaves (how do you know for sure?).... old leaves or new leaves?
What is your desired measurement tolerance? +/-25 cm? +/-1 cm ??

What I'm getting at is... maybe say what you are trying to do... and it might be easier for someone to help. (because what you are asking for is odd)
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mandraks
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

EeVeeWee wrote:
mandraks wrote:
EeVeeWee wrote:

OK question is not clear maybe.
What is the stroke before the arm hits the mechanical stop upwards (without the rubber) from completely down?


i think this could be determined with the help of a calculator, measuring tape and a straight edge.


Of course, but maybe someone knows the answer already. Wink


i was not trying to be a jackass (comes easy, though). regardless of your front axle being lowered or not, broken leaf springs or not, desired wheels you want to run (aka as variables)

you can quite literally figure this out with a measuring tape. even without jacking the bus up. it would be easier, though.
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EeVeeWee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

easy e wrote:
EeVeeWee wrote:
How much space must there be above the front wheels?
To be sure they will never touch the metal of the bus.
EeVeeWee wrote:
What is the stroke before the arm hits the mechanical stop upwards (without the rubber) from completely down?
What is it you are actually trying to determine?

Your first quoted question makes is seem like you don't want to rub your tire on the bus' wheel well. If that's true... it all depends on wheel / tire size.
Well, and... how much it's lowered or raised.

You need to pick one variable to isolate.

Then, you're talking about the torsion arm stop (without rubber). Getting a little picky. But, this also depends on if a stock beam or adjustable>.... broken leaves or all good leaves (how do you know for sure?).... old leaves or new leaves?
What is your desired measurement tolerance? +/-25 cm +/-1 cm ??
What I'm getting at is... maybe say what you are trying to do... and it might be easier for someone to help.


OK, I have a fully restored front beam with dropped spindles and also adjustable.
The position is now that there is only about 5 cm of free space above the (stock) tires. I want to buy new tires, but with nearly the same diameter.

Indeed I don't want that the tires hit the wheel wells, so I want to adjust the bus upwards (the dropped spindles have no influence on the stroke). When I know the stroke of the wheels, I can lift the bus and measure the actual space above the tires. With the dimension of the stroke, I know how much the bus has to be adjusted more upwards.
Then I know the arms will hit the mechanical stops before the tires hit the wheel wells.
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easy e
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

mandraks,
Are you saying the distance from torsion arm to torsion arm stop is a universally fixed distance, independent of variables?

It sounds like that's what you're saying.
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EeVeeWee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
EeVeeWee wrote:
mandraks wrote:
EeVeeWee wrote:

OK question is not clear maybe.
What is the stroke before the arm hits the mechanical stop upwards (without the rubber) from completely down?


i think this could be determined with the help of a calculator, measuring tape and a straight edge.


Of course, but maybe someone knows the answer already. Wink


i was not trying to be a jackass (comes easy, though). regardless of your front axle being lowered or not, broken leaf springs or not, desired wheels you want to run (aka as variables)

you can quite literally figure this out with a measuring tape. even without jacking the bus up. it would be easier, though.


This is roughly possible, but not very accurate so not reliable.
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easy e
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

EeVeeWee wrote:
I have an adjustable beam with dropped spindles.
Distance between tire and wheel well = 5 cm.
I want to buy new tires, but with nearly the same diameter.

Indeed I don't want that the tires hit the wheel wells, so I want to adjust the bus upwards.

When I know the stroke of the wheels, I can lift the bus and measure the actual space above the tires.
With the dimension of the stroke, I know how much the bus has to be raised.
Then I know the arms will hit the mechanical stops before the tires hit the wheel wells.

If your bus doesn't rub now and it rides good... your clearance above the wheel is acceptable.

If you buy a tire with slightly larger diameter... the clearance may become unacceptable and you will need to raise your bus with the adjusters.
Even if you know you will need to raise it 12 mm... do you know if that is one tooth or two teeth on the adjusters? I think you will just have to play with it.

You may be able to go 25 mm larger tire and not rub. You just have to try.
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mandraks
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

easy e wrote:
mandraks,
Are you saying the distance from torsion arm to torsion arm stop is a universally fixed distance, independent of variables?

It sounds like that's what you're saying.


i am also not an english native speaker, but i am pretty sure i suggested no such thing, even though this might be the case.

I was thinking that you can measure the distance between the trailing arm and the bump stop. that is your max travel for the trailing arm.

then you measure the distance above the wheel.

a little bit of math that figures in the length of the trailing arm and you can figure out whether the max travel of the trailing arm will result in the tire hitting the wheel well.

for this math to work the other variables are in fact not important. Then again i am not a mathematician.
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Last edited by mandraks on Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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easy e
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

Makes sense.... compare distance before hitting the stop.... to distance above tire.
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EeVeeWee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
easy e wrote:
mandraks,
Are you saying the distance from torsion arm to torsion arm stop is a universally fixed distance, independent of variables?

It sounds like that's what you're saying.


i am also not an english native speaker, but i am pretty sure i suggested no such thing, even though this might be the case.

I was thinking that you can measure the distance between the trailing arm and the bump stop. that is your max travel for the trailing arm.

then you measure the distance above the wheel.

a little bit of math that figures in the length of the trailing arm and you can figure out whether the max travel of the trailing arm will result in the tire hitting the wheel well.

for this math to work the other variables are in fact not important. Then again i am not a mathematician.


It sounds easy, but it's a bit more complicated.
When the wheel was directely mounted to the end of upper arm, it would be easier.
In practise the wheel is mounted in the middle of two arms, so the angle of the wheel axe stays the same, while the arm turns around.
With vectors it can be calculated, but together with the measurement inaccuracy it will not be very accurate as I already indicated.
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mandraks
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

EeVeeWee wrote:
...

It sounds easy, but it's a bit more complicated.
When the wheel was directely mounted to the end of upper arm, it would be easier.
In practise the wheel is mounted in the middle of two arms, so the angle of the wheel axe stays the same, while the arm turns around.
With vectors it can be calculated, but together with the measurement inaccuracy it will not be very accurate as I already indicated.


gotcha, sounds like you don't want to crawl under your bus. So much easier if somebody else crawls under theirs. It is not that difficult, really. I have faith you can do it.
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EeVeeWee
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
EeVeeWee wrote:
...

It sounds easy, but it's a bit more complicated.
When the wheel was directely mounted to the end of upper arm, it would be easier.
In practise the wheel is mounted in the middle of two arms, so the angle of the wheel axe stays the same, while the arm turns around.
With vectors it can be calculated, but together with the measurement inaccuracy it will not be very accurate as I already indicated.


gotcha, sounds like you don't want to crawl under your bus. So much easier if somebody else crawls under theirs. It is not that difficult, really. I have faith you can do it.


When nobody knows the answer and only smart asses react, I will find it out, don't worry. And the argument about crawling is also BS, I have access to a pit. Smile
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mandraks
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Specs. of tire, wheel, and suspension - Lowered Buses Reply with quote

EeVeeWee wrote:

When nobody knows the answer and only smart asses react, I will find it out, don't worry. And the argument about crawling is also BS, I have access to a pit. Smile


pit is actually a most excellent way to work on a bus, or any other car really.
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