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Westfalia Buyers Guide
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woggs1
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Westfalia Buyers Guide Reply with quote

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Westfalia Buyer’s Guide

This “buyer’s guide” is being written because every time I take my venerable 5 Star “Hotel Westfalia” camping someone, and usually more than one, comes over and wants to know all about it. What’s it got in it? how’s the bed work? two beds! stove? refrigerator? sink? water tank? mileage?, etc, etc, etc. So I’ll print off some of these and carry them in the camper to give to these inquiring persons. You’re welcome to it also, and if you have any tips or suggestions, send them along.

A bit of background. I’ve got two Westys, both water cooled, and both with Subaru engines [more on that later]. I’ve “restored” two others, both of which have been sold [no, I’m not “in the business” nor am I a “mechanic”.]. As a result I have a bit of knowledge about them.

To answer the often asked question whether you can do the Subaru conversion to an air cooled Westy,,, well,, I suppose you could. But it would be hugely expensive. Better off selling your air cooled beast if you already have one and buying a “waterboxer”.

How to choose a Westy? To begin with,,,,,,, you want a “water cooled” Westy . Forget the air cooled engines or the diesels. Major problems, prohibitively expensive if you blow the engine, and just not worth the hassle. Nor do you want the 4 wheel drive “Synchro” model unless you’re going to be doing some serious off-roading and have lots of $ to pay for the maintenance these require. Also figure that a Syncro will cost you about $5,000 to $7,000 more than the 2 wheel drive model. The 2 wheel drive Westy, with the engine weight in the rear, will go just about anywhere.

Owning a Westfalia is better than a Certificate of Deposit,,,,,,, prices are going up rapidly. Especially with gas prices going up. The early model can generally be had for around $5,000 to $6,000 with the later models going for 1 or 2 thousand dollars more. That’s a “winter” price. Add $2,000 if you wait to buy it in May or June. I’ve seen a restored late model one sell for over $20,000 ! [GoWesty gets a fortune for them!]

And,,,, consider this, when California has the “big one”, the 9.0 earthquake, and is turned into a pile of rubble,,,, you’re all set,,,, you’ve got a place to stay,,,, stove, refrigerator, 13 gallons of water, etc.

Water cooled Westys, known as “wasserboxers”, started production in late 1983 and went to 1991. You can immediately identify a water cooled Westy by the 6” high horizontal front grill that’s below the headlight grill.

You also want a “full camper”, not a “Weekender” which has only a “pop-top” and beds. Don’t get a Weekender with the idea of converting it to a full camper; the cost is too much and way too much work. Without looking inside you can identify the full camper by the 3 black hatches [about 5” square] and refrigerator vent on the middle of the side of the vehicle on the driver’s side.

Essentially there were two more or less distinct models; the 1983 thru 1985, and the 1986 to 1991 model. Quickly identify the later model Westy by its square headlights. The earlier one’s have round headlights. There are subtle differences and the 86 – 91 is the preferred model with the price being $1,000 or so higher. That’s not to say that you should turn down an earlier one. Mine are 83’ & 84’.

The later models have a little better front brakes [all Westys have front disk brakes], a little simpler cooling system, power mirrors, wiper for the rear window, a little nicer upholstery and slightly more horsepower. Otherwise they’re pretty much the same.

What to look for when checking out a prospective purchase? These are really fine vehicles but they have two major “problems” that you have to be aware of; engine fires and overheating due to coolant loss. Both are easily solved.

First of all, and very importantly, have a mechanic look at the fuel injector hoses on the engine. All Vanagons [not just the campers] have a well deserved reputation for engine fires. The prevention is simple and cheap. These vehicles are 20 years old. The high pressure fuel hoses [rubber, about 1 ˝ “ long] that connect to the fuel injectors become brittle and cracked from age. Eventually one cracks all the way through causing raw gasoline to spray onto the engine and that’s the end of the Vanagon. The fix is easy and inexpensive, just have them replaced with “fresh” hoses [$100 or so?]. No more problem.

Secondly, the thing that destroys more Vanagon engines than anything else is overheating due to coolant loss. Prevention is simple. Vanagon radiators are oversized and massive and the camper won’t overheat if there’s coolant. It’s coolant leaks from old, cracked hoses that is the problem. Have your mechanic check the condition of the hoses, not only in the engine compartment, but all the way to the radiator and the two heaters. Replace any that look questionable. And if you ever come out to your garage and see drops of coolant on the garage floor, don’t drive it until you have it checked and fixed!

Those are the two critical things to check. Beyond that, look at the condition of the camper’s top canvas [with the top up, of course]. If it’s at all discoloured grey or dark brown along the bottom [especially in the back corners] ask the seller to poke the fabric hard with his finger. He won’t do it,,,, because his finger will go right through. The fabric is rotted and will tear easily. Figure it’s going to cost upwards of $800 to have the top canvas replaced. If you replace the “tent” be sure and get the one with the three “windows” [sold by GoWesty].

And finally, check the propane tank. Probably 95% of the Westys out there have the original tank which has now become “illegal” thanks to the EPA. More and more propane filling facilities won’t fill the old tanks anymore. New tanks are about $350 plus installation. Having the old tank “certified” and re-valve’d is around $160 plus removal & installation. Use the tank “thing” and the canvas top’s condition as bargaining points to get a better deal from the seller.

Other than the items mentioned above, buying a Westy is just like buying any other used car. Have your mechanic check it out.

The early Westys have a 1.9 engine with 72 horsepower. The later one’s have a 2.1 engine [same engine, just a tad bigger] with a bit more horsepower. All Westys are woefully underpowered. You’re not going anywhere fast, especially up hills. Figure on 17 – 18 mpg [regular gas] if you “drive right”. These are good engines if you pay attention to the overheating issue and change the oil & filter regularly. Just underpowered.

The answer to the underpower thing is the Subaru conversion. Kennedy Engineering [http://www.kennedyeng.com/] makes the kit to put a 2.2 Subaru Legacy into the Vanagon. It has superb reliability, a significant increase in power and mileage [130 hp & about 22 mpg on regular gas], and it's nearly a "bolt-in" conversion. No modification to the body is necessary as with other engines. So if the Westy you’re looking at has a tired or blown engine, don’t despair. The cost of the Subaru conversion [around $4,900], is not much more than a stock replacement engine. It’s the only way to go! And it’s SMOG LEGAL for California! [More information on this conversion below.]

Your source for all things “Westfalia” is GoWesty at http://gowesty.com . First thing you should do is call them [888/ 469-3789] and get their catalog [$5]. Nearly ever part for the Westy is available, plus the catalog has a 41 page “library” with lots of good information on these campers. It’s also available on-line.

The Vanagon’s battery is under the front passenger seat. Many Westys have an auxiliary battery [house battery] under the driver’s seat. This is a very desirable feature and GoWesty or a qualified auto electrical shop can install one. Both batteries charge when the engine’s running. With the engine off the two batteries are separated so you’ll always have power to start the camper even if you’ve run down the house battery. To keep the battery from running down too low I install a “voltmeter” so I can monitor the battery’s charge [Stinger SVMB digital LED voltmeter, $30 from CarDomain.com].

Don’t worry if the refrigerator doesn’t work on propane. They’re an absolute bitch to light and very few people can get them lit. GoWesty makes a simple and inexpensive [$19] “check-valve” and once it’s installed it will light every time.

There’s a 13 gallon fresh water tank under the cabinet. Open the top hatch that’s closest to the hanging locker and you’ll find an access plate. Taking this plate off will reveal a large threaded cap on the tank. With the cap off you can clean out and sanitize the tank, and also check the fresh water pump.

These campers are notorious in high winds on the hwy. They get blown around quite a bit. GoWesty recommends changing the wheels and tires [very expensive]. I’ve found a tire that helps, AND it’s the only tire to have if you go “off road” anywhere. I highly recommend the Cooper Discoverer Radial LT, [LT 195/75 R 14 M/S].

One caution on changing wheels & tires; before you actually buy the wheel & tire have the shop install one on the passenger side rear wheel. Then make sure that the sliding door will clear it. There’s only about ˝” clearance and if the wheel/tire combination is too wide, the sliding door won’t open. I’ve seen it happen!

Another thing is the lug nuts on the wheels, especially the rear wheels. Don’t let the tire shop “hammer” them on with an impact wrench. Have them put a dab of anti-seize compound on the threads and then tighten with a lug/torque wrench. If these lug nuts are put on with a impact wrench they tend to seize over time and are impossible get off with the lug wrench you carry in the camper. I’ve had to actually chisel one off when it stripped [rounded]. No fun at all!

Vanagons have an electric fuel pump. It’s located underneath in the vicinity of the sliding door. If it ever quits working in, say, Ely, Nevada you’re going to be there for a couple of days while they get one from VW. No need for that. The Master E-2000 pump, available almost anywhere, is an almost exact replacement and only half the price. If the local parts store doesn’t have the Master, they can cross-reference the E-2000 number for a different manufacturer.

One thing that I wouldn’t do without is a “real” temperature gauge. The stock gauge is a little needle buried in the instrument cluster which doesn’t tell you much. I mount a 2” “real” gauge on the dash where the engine temperature can be easily monitored. I use the Auto Meter Ultra-Lite 4337 [$50 from CarDomain.com] which comes with the sending unit that screws right into the engine [you can’t use the stock sending unit, it’s not calibrated for the Auto Meter gauge].

Some stats;
Fuel tank = 15.9 gallons
Coolant capacity = 18.4 quarts
Battery = Group 27
Auto trans = ATF DEXRON or DEXRON II
Tires [stock] = 185 R 14
Height = 81” [mine, with 195 tires]
Width = 70”
Length = 14’ 10”
Weight = 4,400 lbs [mine]

The Subaru engine swap is pretty straight forward with the exception of the wiring loom and computer, both of which have to be removed intact from the donor Subaru and reinstalled in the Vanagon. The Kennedy kit has a well engineered motor mount that bolts right in, a modified oil pan, and a new header system with catalytic converter, muffler, and heat shield which makes it California "smog legal". The Vanagon's stock cooling system is more than adequate for the new engine.

It's important to note that the stock Subaru oil pan hangs down too low for safe road clearance if you go off highway. The modified oil pan solves this. The stock air inlet for the air box ends up right behind the rear wheel making it necessary to add an air duct up through the Vanagon's side vent, a 15 minute job with flex tubing. If you have an automatic transmission the governor has to be "tweaked" to allow it to shift at a higher rpm to match the Subaru's power curve.

Dale Barnett did both of my conversions. He’s a former machinist at Kennedy Engineering who helped develop the conversion kit and who’s opened his own shop [“Infinite Fabrications”] in Palmdale, California to do conversions. He’s the “guru” of these conversions in my opinion. [Also builds 400 hp Subaru powered custom sandrails]

Dale’s price for the conversion is around $4,900 depending on any little “extras”. That’s a “turn-key” price, you drive it in with a stock engine, you get it back all finished. It includes the Subaru engine, the good powder coated header system, modified oil pan, temperature gauge, high torque starter and taking the vehicle to the state smog referee for the smog certification. [Once you get the smog “bar code” sticker you can take it anywhere for future semi-annual smog tests]

As a final “conversion” note,,, the addition to the selling price of a Subaru Westy is about equal to what you spent on the conversion, i.e., if a stock motor’d Westy is $5,000 then you’d get about $9,500 or so for one with the Subaru conversion.

Dale Barnett 661/ 547-1130 [cell] 661/ 947-7274 [shop]
[email protected]

If you want to see one of the neat places you can take your Westy, go to my little web site www.gonzowrite.com and click on the “Saline Valley” link.

Cheers,

Trent D. Sanders
La Cańada, Calif. & Ketchum, Idaho
[email protected]


I saw this on Craigslist in LA, does anyone have the Master E-2000 pump? I think I might add one to my tool kit just in case.
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would take that "buyers guide" with a grain of salt, some good info. but mostly it's just the authors opinion, seems about right for Craig's list.
I didn't see the pump you're talking about, I don't know what one is, I wouldn't worry about it to much.
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woggs1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Vanagons have an electric fuel pump. It’s located underneath in the vicinity of the sliding door. If it ever quits working in, say, Ely, Nevada you’re going to be there for a couple of days while they get one from VW. No need for that. The Master E-2000 pump, available almost anywhere, is an almost exact replacement and only half the price. If the local parts store doesn’t have the Master, they can cross-reference the E-2000 number for a different manufacturer.


The Master E-2000


Quote:
I didn't see the pump you're talking about, I don't know what one is, I wouldn't worry about it to much.


Do you mean that the stock fuel pump is reliable? My Westy is 1983.5 with 124,000 miles and is all stock except for the rebuilt engine.

Thanks in advance
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woggs1 wrote:
Quote:
Vanagons have an electric fuel pump. It’s located underneath in the vicinity of the sliding door. If it ever quits working in, say, Ely, Nevada you’re going to be there for a couple of days while they get one from VW. No need for that. The Master E-2000 pump, available almost anywhere, is an almost exact replacement and only half the price. If the local parts store doesn’t have the Master, they can cross-reference the E-2000 number for a different manufacturer.


The Master E-2000


Quote:
I didn't see the pump you're talking about, I don't know what one is, I wouldn't worry about it to much.


Do you mean that the stock fuel pump is reliable? My Westy is 1983.5 with 124,000 miles and is all stock except for the rebuilt engine.

Thanks in advance


VW has used this same fuel pump since 1972, it's as reliable as every other FI pump I've ever seen.
Change the fuel filter and don't run it dry and you should be fine.
If it isn't making noise and the van runs ok then I wouldn't worry about the pump.
If you want piece of mind, buy the correct Bosch pump and keep your old one as a spare.
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why shouldn't you buy a Weekender?

It has more space, less weight, less stuff to break, and carries more folks. I have a coleman stove for cooking...
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joetiger wrote:
Why shouldn't you buy a Weekender?

It has more space, less weight, less stuff to break, and carries more folks. I have a coleman stove for cooking...


Like I said it's mostly the authors opinion, sounds kind of like an advertisement for conversions by Dale. Laughing
I don't have a problem with any Vanagon, get what you can afford, treat it right, know it's quirks, and you should enjoy it.
I've put about 23,000 miles on my aircooled Westy, it has never broken on a trip and we've taken many.
It may not be the fastest to the campsite, but the Westfalia experiance is the same.
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woggs1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why shouldn't you buy a Weekender?

It has more space, less weight, less stuff to break, and carries more folks. I have a coleman stove for cooking...


Good point, but I am really liking the refrigerator, the other night I went and bought beer that wasn't refrigerated, put it in the refer, and by the time I got home I had a cold one. I haven't camped in my Westy yet, but when I do I would rather cook outside. The sink seems pretty convenient however, easier to do dishes than a container of soapy water. Does the loaded version have a higher resale value than the weekender?
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Redd73
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how difficult would it be to put a fridge in a weekender? i have a coleman stove but REALLY like the idea of the fridge for vacation/road trips. i also dont really need a sink in my van. there are sinks/showers at many campgrounds and all truck stops.

im interested in the differences between the air/water cooled. maybe its due to having water cooled vehicles my whole life but for some reason it just sounds like a better idea.
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riceye
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 87 Weekender has a small fridge that mounts to the floor behind the passenger seat. It runs on 12v or 110v, and works pretty well for road tripping and keeping beer cold in a motel stop. Pulls down the second battery pretty fast without the engine running, though.

We pull it out when camping in favor of a Coleman cooler. More space efficient.

I prefer the extra space and jump seat in a Weekender. I cook with a tripod over a fire, or a couple of Svea stoves if a fire is impractical.

Cheers!
Ric
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about the rest of you but frequently people come up to me to ask me questions about my van and to share their VW bus memories. Just the other day I had a note left on my van asking me to call them if I wanted to sell it! (I called and talked about vans with the guy for quite some time, but the trip ship is not for sale!) Anyway, this got me thinking, I've started making my own "Westfalia Information Packet" that I can carry in the van and hand to people who think they might want to become part of our little world. I started it yesterday, it's going to be stuff from go-westy, myself, samba wisdom, and internet links. It's almost done and I'll post it in a seperate thread so people can add their two cents.

More to follow.....
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psych-illogical
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Kevin, definitely post your stuff when you get it done. Should be interesting.

The full camper vs. weekender argument seems to be a highly personal thing. Heck, for years I camped out of a pick-up truck using a coleman stove, ice chest, inflatable matress, etc. You don't NEED all the camping stuff that's built into a Westy but, I'm sure lovin' it now. The only thing I don't use a lot is the refrigerator. Mine works just fine but I still find it to be a major PITA. I plug it into to 110v when I can, run it on 12v when I'm on the road, but I don't like to leave it on 12v while I'm stopped due to battery drainage so, when I get to where I'm going I light it on propane but that takes a minute or two so while I've got the door open checking to make sure I've got it lit through the sight glass at the back, all the cold air rolls out of the thing. It seems like most of the time, if I drive it with the fridge running on propane, it blows out so I gotta re-light it. I usually just use it for dry food storage and throw the beer in a small Coleman ice chest. Anyway, when I started looking for this van if I had found a nice weekender I probably would've bought it but I'm really glad that I found a full Westy. My first Westy was a '68 and my '83 Vanagon is vastly superior.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm the same way when it comes to the fridge, don't use it much except for "dry" storage. When traveling I use a small ice chest and do use the fridge only if I know where I'm going will have shore power. The stove is awesome and I use it all the time as well as all the cabinets
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Westfalia Buyers Guide Reply with quote

[quote="woggs1"]
Quote:

The early model can generally be had for around $5,000 to $6,000 with the later models going for 1 or 2 thousand dollars more. That’s a “winter” price. Add $2,000 if you wait to buy it in May or June. I’ve seen a restored late model one sell for over $20,000 ! [GoWesty gets a fortune for them!]

I'm looking to get my first Westy! I'm wondering where you are getting your prices from, as I want to pay fair value. But what I'm seeing on the Samba Classifieds is telling me different. I've seen some for $5000, but these are real beaters and some without engines. Most of them are priced from $12,000 to $20,000. Is that what they are going for now? I'd like a white later model Westy for a fair price.
[quote="woggs1"]
Quote:

Owning a Westfalia is better than a Certificate of Deposit,,,,,,, prices are going up rapidly. Especially with gas prices going up.

Curious why more expensive gas would make an old van that gets 18 mpg more valuable; what's your logic on that theroy? I think what's happening is inflation.

Thanks for your opions on the buyer's guide. As a newbie, I find it useful.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Westfalia Buyers Guide Reply with quote

[quote="jayzoid"][quote="woggs1"]
Quote:

The early model can generally be had for around $5,000 to $6,000 with the later models going for 1 or 2 thousand dollars more. That’s a “winter” price. Add $2,000 if you wait to buy it in May or June. I’ve seen a restored late model one sell for over $20,000 ! [GoWesty gets a fortune for them!]

I'm looking to get my first Westy! I'm wondering where you are getting your prices from, as I want to pay fair value. But what I'm seeing on the Samba Classifieds is telling me different. I've seen some for $5000, but these are real beaters and some without engines. Most of them are priced from $12,000 to $20,000. Is that what they are going for now? I'd like a white later model Westy for a fair price.
woggs1 wrote:
Quote:

Owning a Westfalia is better than a Certificate of Deposit,,,,,,, prices are going up rapidly. Especially with gas prices going up.

Curious why more expensive gas would make an old van that gets 18 mpg more valuable; what's your logic on that theroy? I think what's happening is inflation.

Thanks for your opions on the buyer's guide. As a newbie, I find it useful.





what people list their vans for and what they actually sell for are two values usually. prices are inflated at the moment but there are good deals out there for sure. one guy will look at samba and see a 90 syncro 1.9 tdi westy with all the upgrades possible for $35k. then that guy will say "geez my bone stock 84 westy with 250k miles and leaky heads must be worth atleast $15k right"? people push the market but i doubt they are getting their actual asking prices (although one is born evenry minute). now is the time to buy. spring and summer prices get high again. find one locally and really drive and learn it before you haggle. have cash in hand as the show of green helps get a better price in my experiences anyways.
good luck
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levi
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Westfalia Buyers Guide Reply with quote

[quote="jayzoid"][quote="woggs1"]
Quote:

The early model can generally be had for around $5,000 to $6,000 with the later models going for 1 or 2 thousand dollars more. That’s a “winter” price. Add $2,000 if you wait to buy it in May or June. I’ve seen a restored late model one sell for over $20,000 ! [GoWesty gets a fortune for them!]

I'm looking to get my first Westy! I'm wondering where you are getting your prices from, as I want to pay fair value. But what I'm seeing on the Samba Classifieds is telling me different. I've seen some for $5000, but these are real beaters and some without engines. Most of them are priced from $12,000 to $20,000. Is that what they are going for now? I'd like a white later model Westy for a fair price.
woggs1 wrote:
Quote:

Owning a Westfalia is better than a Certificate of Deposit,,,,,,, prices are going up rapidly. Especially with gas prices going up.

Curious why more expensive gas would make an old van that gets 18 mpg more valuable; what's your logic on that theroy? I think what's happening is inflation.

Thanks for your opions on the buyer's guide. As a newbie, I find it useful.

I still see very nice looking air cooled westy's in the 2000-3000 range. They are out there, just have to hunt for them. Craigslist is a good resource, though you're unlikely to find a good deal in the santa cruz area. The air cooled's are always much less than the water boxers, are comparatively a very good bargain, and as mightyart says, once you get there the camping experience is the same.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woggs1 wrote:
The Master E-2000


I think they are called the "Mister E 200".

Why they cost $200 is a Mister E to me, too...........

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riceye
Samba Member


Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1428
Location: Caledonia, WI
riceye is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, you're in Santa Cruz and its November! Be patient, and watch craigslist.com. You will do great.

Keep an eye on the heads for coolant drips, and any oil leaks below. Check the boots, and be sure of it's provenance in terms of rust. Large scale carving (improvements) may seem cool, but be sure they are what you want, as it is no longer a pristene Westy.

The right one may require airfare, and will definitely need some lovin' (aka $), but the sooner you get to know your new ride, the better.

Many folks relate tales of how their Westy found them. Keep your eyes open, and good luck.

Cheers!
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'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads

There's gonna be some changes made.

“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee

"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - R.M. Pirsig
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DWC
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2007
Posts: 223
Location: San Jose CA
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2 cents.
Stay away from Santa Cruz Westys.
I looked a a handfull of them when I was looking for one and they all had rust and most were pretty beat. Not to say there are not some nice ones there, but don't waste your time driving there unless you get 100% assurance from the owner that the vehicle is in good shape.
The exception is Van Cafe. They do have nice vans from time to time.
DC
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psych-illogical
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Joined: October 14, 2004
Posts: 1181
Location: AZ
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking for a used Westy on theSamba classifieds is kinda like looking for one at GoWesty. You've got a lot of people here who are VW fanatics who love their Westys and think they're worth gold. There are plenty of these out there that are not in the hands of the cognoscenti. Craigslist is a good place as well as the local newspaper classifieds. I found mine parked in a neighborhood driveway with a 'for sale' sign in the window. I agree with levi, you ought to be able to find an OK Westy for $2-3000. Expect to put another grand or so into it for miscellaneous stuff. Most of 'em have at least a couple of deferred maintenance issues.
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