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Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic
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davlance01
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Quote:
There is not much reason to need a 0w20 in these engines or a 20w50, yet both are fervently recommended by people here.


That 0w20 is like water. It's the only oil that actually splashes as it is being pumped into the tanks at the dealerships. I wouldn't dream of subjecting my poor vw engine to that torture.

I don't think I have ever unloaded 20w50 to be honest, nobody seems to use it not even those big industrial compressors that are used in the pipelines they use straight SAE 40 and those engines are so big they have walkways built around them!

Quote:
He's talking about unloading a tanker truck, not operating a VW.


Thank you
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

turboblue wrote:
He's talking about unloading a tanker truck, not operating a VW.

And again, when talking about what oil to use in your VW's engine (which is the whole purpose behind this immense topic) the only time pump cavitation would be an issue as he describes is if your oil is too heavy/thick for the temperature that you're starting it in. If it's below freezing out and you've got straight 30 or 40 weight in the case, you have a legitimate chance that the pump may cavitate, but if you follow the guidance laid out in the owner's manual then you'll have lighter weight oil instead -- no fear of cavitation and thus the argument isn't valid.
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74 standard
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Ok so thoughts on Mobil 1. I’ve got 4l of it. Am I going to ruin my lifters? My cam ? Reduce life expectancy?

Stock motor with 500 miles on it. Maxi 2 pump

Thanks.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

74 standard wrote:
Ok so thoughts on Mobil 1. I’ve got 4l of it. Am I going to ruin my lifters? My cam ? Reduce life expectancy?

Stock motor with 500 miles on it. Maxi 2 pump

Thanks.


There are a lot of different Mobile 1 oils out there.
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74 standard
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
74 standard wrote:
Ok so thoughts on Mobil 1. I’ve got 4l of it. Am I going to ruin my lifters? My cam ? Reduce life expectancy?

Stock motor with 500 miles on it. Maxi 2 pump

Thanks.


There are a lot of different Mobile 1 oils out there.


It says rated SN plus.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

74 standard wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
74 standard wrote:
Ok so thoughts on Mobil 1. I’ve got 4l of it. Am I going to ruin my lifters? My cam ? Reduce life expectancy?

Stock motor with 500 miles on it. Maxi 2 pump

Thanks.


There are a lot of different Mobile 1 oils out there.


It says rated SN plus.


Looks like there are 24 different Mobile 1 oils to choose from, most of them have an SN rating:

https://www.cruisintigers.com/wp-content/uploads/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf
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davlance01
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
turboblue wrote:
He's talking about unloading a tanker truck, not operating a VW.

And again, when talking about what oil to use in your VW's engine (which is the whole purpose behind this immense topic) the only time pump cavitation would be an issue as he describes is if your oil is too heavy/thick for the temperature that you're starting it in. If it's below freezing out and you've got straight 30 or 40 weight in the case, you have a legitimate chance that the pump may cavitate, but if you follow the guidance laid out in the owner's manual then you'll have lighter weight oil instead -- no fear of cavitation and thus the argument isn't valid.


So you agree with me. Use what is recommended by the owners manual.

Glad that's over with!
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74 standard
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
74 standard wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
74 standard wrote:
Ok so thoughts on Mobil 1. I’ve got 4l of it. Am I going to ruin my lifters? My cam ? Reduce life expectancy?

Stock motor with 500 miles on it. Maxi 2 pump

Thanks.


There are a lot of different Mobile 1 oils out there.


It says rated SN plus.


Looks like there are 24 different Mobile 1 oils to choose from, most of them have an SN rating:

https://www.cruisintigers.com/wp-content/uploads/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf


It appears to be the 10w30 with 900 ppm zinc.
Just says “Advanced full synthetic formula designed for domestics and imports.”
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mukluk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

davlance01 wrote:
So you agree with me. Use what is recommended by the owners manual.

Glad that's over with!

I never disagreed with using the oil recommendation from the manual, I just thought it funny that you stressed following one piece of guidance from the manual (oil weight vs temp) but insisted on doing the opposite for another piece of guidance (don't idle the engine to warm it up). Wink

I will add two caveats: when one strays from the stock engine clearances and oiling system then proper oil weight selection may well differ from what is shown in the manual; and that it's wise to take advantage of multiweight oils in older cars that predate them, ie, it's better to use 10w30 in your old 1200-1600 engine over the applicable temp range that it is to use the appropriate single weight oils.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
davlance01 wrote:
So you agree with me. Use what is recommended by the owners manual.

Glad that's over with!

I never disagreed with using the oil recommendation from the manual, I just thought it funny that you stressed following one piece of guidance from the manual (oil weight vs temp) but insisted on doing the opposite for another piece of guidance (don't idle the engine to warm it up). Wink

I will add two caveats: when one strays from the stock engine clearances and oiling system then proper oil weight selection may well differ from what is shown in the manual; and that it's wise to take advantage of multiweight oils in older cars that predate them, ie, it's better to use 10w30 in your old 1200-1600 engine over the applicable temp range that it is to use the appropriate single weight oils.


I suppose you got a point there on the piece of guidance thing.

If I had a brand new engine and I only took it out every now in the summer would be the only way I could get away with that thin oil.

I drive the crap out of my water cooled vanagon year and use it from time to time to make money moving new semi tractors so you and I more than likely have way different use cases of our vehicles.

Either rate its been a good discussion and I always enjoy a good oil argument.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

davlance01 wrote:
mukluk wrote:
davlance01 wrote:
So you agree with me. Use what is recommended by the owners manual.

Glad that's over with!

I never disagreed with using the oil recommendation from the manual, I just thought it funny that you stressed following one piece of guidance from the manual (oil weight vs temp) but insisted on doing the opposite for another piece of guidance (don't idle the engine to warm it up). Wink

I will add two caveats: when one strays from the stock engine clearances and oiling system then proper oil weight selection may well differ from what is shown in the manual; and that it's wise to take advantage of multiweight oils in older cars that predate them, ie, it's better to use 10w30 in your old 1200-1600 engine over the applicable temp range that it is to use the appropriate single weight oils.


I suppose you got a point there on the piece of guidance thing.

If I had a brand new engine and I only took it out every now in the summer would be the only way I could get away with that thin oil.

I drive the crap out of my water cooled vanagon year and use it from time to time to make money moving new semi tractors so you and I more than likely have way different use cases of our vehicles.

Either rate its been a good discussion and I always enjoy a good oil argument.


My 91 (acquired almost new) saw either 10w30 during the winter and 30wt during the summer for the first 100K +/- miles it was driven and then ran 5w40 synthetic from then on out until the rod bolts began to stretch at something like 180K miles. Running an overly thick oil would have gained me zero additional miles and might have covered up for the stretching rod bolts causing an explosive loss of the bottom end. As it was when the oil light began staying on at idle I took the engine out of service, even though at the time I had never heard of the 2.1L's tendency to have rod bolts stretch and fail.

Nothing I like more than pulling long western passes with the pedal to the floor.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

davlance01 wrote:
That 0w20 is like water. It's the only oil that actually splashes as it is being pumped into the tanks at the dealerships. I wouldn't dream of subjecting my poor vw engine to that torture.

0W-20 when you're delivering it at room temp is still thicker than 10W-30 at 180ºF, so why would you fear it?
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Would you go 3000 miles between changes with a filter ?
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Maybe I'm an idiot but on my 2003 truck I go 10,000 between oil changes. It has 497,000 miles on it.

My Ghia? I tend to change that when it just "looks" dirty.
Yes, I have a filter on it.
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

jeffrey8164 wrote:
Maybe I'm an idiot but on my 2003 truck I go 10,000 between oil changes. It has 497,000 miles on it.

My Ghia? I tend to change that when it just "looks" dirty.
Yes, I have a filter on it.


I do 6-10,000 mile oil changes on my Type 4 powered bus and went for years going 25K miles between changes on my Vanagon when it had a stock engine. In both cases I was running synthetic oil.

My 1973 T-181 I typically change at 3-6000, again with synthetic oil.

Moisture is a big killer of air cooled engines, if you are building up goo under your filler cap or worse inside your valve covers then you need to change your oil more frequently.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

I'm going to try this -


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

Bruce wrote:

0W-20... at room temp is... thicker than 10W-30 at 180ºF


say what?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

I just leaned something from this guy. I thought "high mileage" oils were supposed to be fuel economy related. Not so apparently!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdzbRMy0sYU

And he say what I have believed for years, oil weight needs are directly related to engine condition/bearing clearance. A new well built engine will suffer from a lack of oiling if heavy oil is used! A worn out engine benefits from thicker oil.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

74 standard wrote:
Would you go 3000 miles between changes with a filter ?


I don't. You change the oil to get rid of the finer contaminates. The filter can safely go several oil changes.

You can answer that question for yourself by opening up your used filter, rinsing the element with solvent and looking for what it has filtered out. In most cases you will find next to nothing in there. Filters cannot remove water, acids, carbon or the very fine wear particles normally found in the oil. Filters are there to remove the big stuff only. A filter designed to remove the above contaminants would be far too restrictive to use in a full flow application.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
74 standard wrote:
Would you go 3000 miles between changes with a filter ?


I don't. You change the oil to get rid of the finer contaminates. The filter can safely go several oil changes.

You can answer that question for yourself by opening up your used filter, rinsing the element with solvent and looking for what it has filtered out. In most cases you will find next to nothing in there. Filters cannot remove water, acids, carbon or the very fine wear particles normally found in the oil. Filters are there to remove the big stuff only. A filter designed to remove the above contaminants would be far too restrictive to use in a full flow application.


This crank has something like 370-420K miles on it and mikes out perfect. Don't see where ~10,000 mile oil changes for the last 150K of those miles hurt anything at all. I run an extra quart in the crankcase and have an improved crankcase ventilation system. The cylinders show almost no taper as well, with 250K on them.

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