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BrownBertha
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Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Carlisle
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Starting issues Reply with quote

Hello,
I have a question about an 84 westy. I got it a few months ago and got it inspected and checked out. The westy has been at home and my parents would drive it on occasion since I am at college. They brought it to me today and took my truck home. Wouldn't you know it the first time i go to start it, it doesn't work. It was completely dead, like the battery was drained. I tried to jump it and nothing happens. So i threw the battery on the charger and once it was charged the car tried to start but wouldn't. Its now night out and raining, I want to fix this problem tomorrow, does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking the alternator possibly. Any help would be appriacted.

P.S. I put generic pergo floor in today. It looks absolutly amazying. Hightly recommend it, plus it gives you a chance to clean everything really well.


Thanks for the help . taylor
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Raynor Shine
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could be your ignition switch. Does it make any noise when you turn it over or just click? THey cost $10 or so at local foreign car parts place. Take off the lower steering column plastic cover, pull the plug from the ignitions switch , plug in the new switch & try to turn it with a small screwdriver. If that does't work, start looking at your starter connections.. oh what next...
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BrownBertha
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the battery was dead, but still powered the lights there was no click, now there is a starting noise it just wont turn over. I have some lesson plans for teaching to complete before I can go check it out some more. I will look into the switch though. any other ideas. thanks
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tencentlife
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Joined: May 02, 2006
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Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove, clean up and tighten both battery post connections. Look for corrosion on the positive cable where it meets the connector; clean up if it's all blue/green. While the cables are off the battery, follow the negative cable to where it bolts to the chassis; remove the bolt, sandpaper the cable eyelet and the attachment point on the chassis, and reconnect. You can use Vaseline to coat all these connections to help prevent future corrosion. It's OK to precoat the parts before reconnecting even; the Vaseline will not affect conductivity.

If you do the stuff at the battery, and you've charged it awhile and battery voltage is good, but it still won't crank at a good speed, then undo the negative battery post again. Go under the car or reach thru the forward gap of the engine bay, to do the same treatment to the positive cables where they attach to the starter solenoid post. There is a 13mm nut holding them on. Remove, sandpaper clean, repair any loosening or badlycorroded eyelets, Vaseline and reconnect. Do the same at the big positive post on the back of the alternator. Make sure you've ungrounded the battery while working on these big, unfused power connections.

By doing all that, you've removed a lot of resistance on the positive current path that feeds the starter, alternator, and all the engine control functions except ignition.

If it still won't start, check back and we'll have more ideas.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I strongly agree with using vasoline on the electical connections before assembly especially the battery post. I have been doing it myself for over 25 years now and have had absolutely great results, yet I have taken a lot of grief from fellow mechanics for doing so. Many mistakenly believe that the Vasoline will block current flow.

I could recommend nothing that works better at keeping an automotive electrical system working 100%. I still have a couple of original battery cables on both my old 70 vintage Dodge truck and my 70's vintage VW van that are still in service and look great after over three decades of continual use. I don't remember cleaning the terminals on either since I switched to this method, it is just not needed.

IMHO opinion it works great even on large Diesel engines which see very high amp draws compared to automotive engines.
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Van Deütsch
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Location: Lost Angeles, CA
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: General confusion about Silicone and Vaseline -SETTLED Reply with quote

You've got it correct with the vaseline. Alot of folks have questions and doubts about what and why to coat which connections with insulative grease. YUP -insulative -or- dilectric either silicone or vaseline. It all comes down to elimination of electrolysis and sulfation corrosion buildup where dissimilar metals make contact or are allowed to contact the air and begin creating a layer of oxidation.
So, in any connection (plugs (wait, they're special), battery leads, push on terminals or screw ons) it's the METAL TO METAL contact that counts. Where connections are tight there is NO grease and where there's no connection, there is insulation and protection. If you are crimping BIG battery leads correctly, you should work grease back up into the wire a ways before it enters swage.
Furthermore, the dissimlar metals are a big cause. you've got heavy copper wire into steel or lead battery terminals and on the other end it's repeated from coppper to metal and back to the copper wire (bus or component lead). In aircraft there is a concerted effort now to make the entire path copper from battery terminal, swaged fittings to wires and screws. that would almost entirely eliminate the problem.
OK, I'll repeat what's been said before here; the silicone rubber in the sparkplug terminal connector sockets is very similar molecularly to glass or ceramic (JUST WHAT YOUR PLUG TERMINAL IS INSULATED WITH) and the molecules of silicone over time migrate into the insulation and vice versa and they become fused which is why we use slicone grease to prevent that.
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felixthevolks
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Location: Williamsburg, VA
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off topic- and possibly dumb question- but as far as galvanic corrosion- has anyone noticed rust popping up around stainless hardware? I replaced the screws on most of the exterior lights, etc. with stainless and am a little worried that the surrounding steel might start taking a beating. I have also been toying with fabricating stuff like the kitchen wall rails and battery end of the pan in the '74 out of stainless or aluminum, etc.
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Van Deütsch
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Location: Lost Angeles, CA
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmmm. I don't know about stainless and carbon steels together. I DO know that stainless into any aluminum or magnesium engine part is not a good idea as you will get migration and electrolysis. My bmw motorcycle group has found that if you do use stainless fittings, use the hard-to-find copper anti-seize paste as the copper in the paste takes the beating and not the base metals.
BTW, Stainless is less strong than regular carbon steel bolts. I have heard that some have gone and replaced large fasteners in areas that corrode like brake caliper mounts, suspension and some engine bolts. Stainless work hardens (becomes brittle) with repeated loads. Bad (scary) Idea... But it's ideal for non-critical stuff.
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BrownBertha
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Update on engine trouble and a question Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips, sorry i didn't get back sooner. I have been busier then imaginable. I cleaned everything up, the problem now upon farther driving is that once the westy is run for a bit and then turned off it has trouble starting. It is driving me crazy. Please let me know the cause of this. It is an automatic 1.9. Thank you, taylor
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tencentlife
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Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does "trouble starting" mean it cranks too slowly, or not at all? Or does it crank well but won't start? The more specific you are the easier it is to offer good suggestions.

If it's not at all, is there a click when you turn the key to the start position? If there isn't, you might want to test the gear selector contacts. If your battery is good, and you switch on the headlights, if they dim when you try to operate the starter, it shows that current is being delivered to the starter, so the wiring is probably allright and the problem is either the battery or the starter itself.

So does it start well cold after cleaning up the wiring?

If so, do a basic charge voltage test. Note battery voltage before starting, should be 12.3-12.6 after overnight. Then watch how the voltage climbs once the motor is running. It should climb to 13.8-14.3. If it manages that, then the alternator is basically doing its job.

Then you should get a load test done on the battery, preferably at an independent garage rather than an autoparts store, since some of them will say your battery is bad whatever their test shows. If you go to a FLAPS make sure he lets you watch the test gauge. They're usually color coded so it's easy to see it go into the red zone.

I suspect that your battery is probably weak, but if it load tests OK then it may be an aging starter. Trouble with hot restart when it works well cold is a sign of age resistance in the windings, which don't get replaced in a recon.
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