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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:52 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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For those still playing
Core data scattered between 18-22, mean of 19.8, std dev of 2, range of 23, 35 mpg removed by FU test.
Lies, damn lies, statistics, Samba posts.
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Abscate wrote: |
For those still playing
Core data scattered between 18-22, mean of 19.8, std dev of 2, range of 23, 35 mpg removed by FU test.
Lies, damn lies, statistics, Samba posts. |
Ahh the appeal to spite, many posters claim +30 mpg.
The factory advertising says 33mpg for era.
Keep up the good work.
H@ter$ Killing the hobby one car at a time.
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Abscate wrote: |
For those still playing
Core data scattered between 18-22, mean of 19.8, std dev of 2, range of 23, 35 mpg removed by FU test.
Lies, damn lies, statistics, Samba posts. |
I averaged gasoline entries only.
EPA ratings for the first FiJ Bus, 1975 is 18 city, 25 highway. These were typically not achieved in driving, so they are in line with reports here.
Posters claims of over 30 mpg gasoline are ignorable to those based in reality.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
The factory advertising says 33mpg for era.
Keep up the good work.. |
tell me lies tell me sweet little lies....
33 in a bug? sure. bus? fat chance
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| Meh, you’ve called bullshite on me before, ten years later I produced evidence and shut you up.. |
 when did you "shut me up" ? chances are, I just walked away because, you know...it's you...and there is zero reasoning with you....
the forum at large has recorded the numbers that I state..24 is about the holy grail number buddy...carb or FI...stock or modified....or running a watercooled gas or diesel.
so you mean to tell me you're the only guy that has hit 35mpg in a bay? even the rock star bus cross country driving consultants haven't hit anything better than 24..
I have seen your posts on other forums....which leads me to believe that you are really off center, and reality (real world or otherwise) is something you just fail to accept.
just to prove that I am a nice guy....and that you are some internet hero who will not put your money where your mouth is.....I will pay to transport your 35mpg bus out to Connecticut, pay to fly you here to prove it to me.
we will calibrate a 35 mile loop, your speedo, GPS and 1 US gallon of gasoline. I want to see for myself a baywindow with a 1600 get 35 miles to 1 gallon of gas. and, you must average 45-50 mph...that is real world speed. and...no bullshit "coasting" down hill or any of the other hyper-miler bullshit that 99% of real world drivers DO NOT do.
I want to see the results as any average bus owner would drive a bus. not some kick it in neutral, shut the bus off and coast for 1/4 mile bullshit...real world averages here
if I am wrong, you win. if I am right, I want double my money back. let me know how you want to proceed. and to make it fair...YOU have to get 35mpg out of it, and I have to get 35mpg out of it...just to prove it is possible. I will drive it EXACTLY like you...and we will both be in the bus together...for better or worse....we will leave friends, or not....I don't care one way or the other...
so, lets do it. we will start a youtube channel so everyone can see this magical 35 mpg baywindow. |
Appeal to the crowd and personal attacks in the same post! -2 points!
Did I miss anything? |
This is better than the Special Olympics... and WAY more special! |
Kinda funny, really. My claim for mileage isn’t much over the advertised rates for a 70 panel. I’ve stated I don’t drive in over loaded conditions and my few bolt on mods make it simple to try yourself. Some guys like driving their fat grandma purses around I guess.
When looking at a factory owners manual of the period VW states to drive the car briskly.
That and having the lightest van as a base it’s a cinch.. |
Which ads?
1970 owner's manual lists 22,6 MPG US as standard here:
... and that's actual measured consumption PLUS 10%, half load, at 53 MPH on a flat road, as it states. If you're getting 35 MPG something is way the hell wrong. My guess is your mileage counter is way off.
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:27 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| Meh, you’ve called bullshite on me before, ten years later I produced evidence and shut you up.. |
when did you "shut me up" ? chances are, I just walked away because, you know...it's you...and there is zero reasoning with you....
the forum at large has recorded the numbers that I state..24 is about the holy grail number buddy...carb or FI...stock or modified....or running a watercooled gas or diesel.
so you mean to tell me you're the only guy that has hit 35mpg in a bay? even the rock star bus cross country driving consultants haven't hit anything better than 24..
I have seen your posts on other forums....which leads me to believe that you are really off center, and reality (real world or otherwise) is something you just fail to accept.
just to prove that I am a nice guy....and that you are some internet hero who will not put your money where your mouth is.....I will pay to transport your 35mpg bus out to Connecticut, pay to fly you here to prove it to me.
we will calibrate a 35 mile loop, your speedo, GPS and 1 US gallon of gasoline. I want to see for myself a baywindow with a 1600 get 35 miles to 1 gallon of gas. and, you must average 45-50 mph...that is real world speed. and...no bullshit "coasting" down hill or any of the other hyper-miler bullshit that 99% of real world drivers DO NOT do.
I want to see the results as any average bus owner would drive a bus. not some kick it in neutral, shut the bus off and coast for 1/4 mile bullshit...real world averages here
if I am wrong, you win. if I am right, I want double my money back. let me know how you want to proceed. and to make it fair...YOU have to get 35mpg out of it, and I have to get 35mpg out of it...just to prove it is possible. I will drive it EXACTLY like you...and we will both be in the bus together...for better or worse....we will leave friends, or not....I don't care one way or the other...
so, lets do it. we will start a youtube channel so everyone can see this magical 35 mpg baywindow. |
Appeal to the crowd and personal attacks in the same post! -2 points!
Did I miss anything? |
This is better than the Special Olympics... and WAY more special! |
Kinda funny, really. My claim for mileage isn’t much over the advertised rates for a 70 panel. I’ve stated I don’t drive in over loaded conditions and my few bolt on mods make it simple to try yourself. Some guys like driving their fat grandma purses around I guess.
When looking at a factory owners manual of the period VW states to drive the car briskly.
That and having the lightest van as a base it’s a cinch.. |
Which ads?
1970 owner's manual lists 22,6 MPG US as standard here:
... and that's actual measured consumption PLUS 10%, half load, at 53 MPH on a flat road, as it states. If you're getting 35 MPG something is way the hell wrong. My guess is your mileage counter is way off. |
Only if I claim it, got it.
Bias ply tire, tight valves, oil weight, all of the tune specs, exhaust, etc etc
Kinda missing the ad that showed em all on an island getting 26mpg
My mileage gains were before gas was oxygenated.
PNW in early 90’s, when you were managing Kmart in the Midwest.
I had brought my California smog tricks to Oregon, unlike you I’ve been in the car business my whole life.
The mean or the average?
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ChrisFred
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2014
Posts: 322
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| anyone who claims 30 MPG with 9 people in the bus or with a camper kit is a liar. Unless their engine is running so lean that it is running off of fumes alone, Most should expect anywhere between 19-25 MPG for a Bus. For T1, it will get better MPG solely off of less weight. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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This is the Bay window forum. Please remove all data from T1, which aren't being discussed in this thread, and just post Bay Window Bus data or ads.
If you don't have any such data supporting >30 mpg consumption of a Bay Window Bus in real world conditions, then retract your statements.
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:38 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Abscate wrote: |
This is the Bay window forum. Please remove all data from T1, which aren't being discussed in this thread, and just post Bay Window Bus data or ads.
If you don't have any such data supporting >30 mpg consumption of a Bay Window Bus in real world conditions, then retract your statements. |
Because motortrend listed a squareback as having 32 average mpg in the 69 model year?
With the exact same engine I claim to have reached similar numbers, probably even a universal case.
But thanks for bringing politics into it,
Facts don’t matter here, got it.
And remember FI didn’t get better mileage George.
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:41 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| ChrisFred wrote: |
| anyone who claims 30 MPG with 9 people in the bus or with a camper kit is a liar. Unless their engine is running so lean that it is running off of fumes alone, Most should expect anywhere between 19-25 MPG for a Bus. For T1, it will get better MPG solely off of less weight. |
It’s too bad you weren’t around for quality gas.
I’m surprised none of you geeks came up with a formula that shows the fuel economy lost to save the environment with oxygenated gas compared to the OG formulation.
That’s the only coralation I see valid, blaming history as a lie in pretty thin.
Or maybe none of you understands basic wrenching skills.
I remember when I rebuilt my carbs and fuel mixture screws were profiled different for the different specific gravity of the new fuels in (1990) compared to the German mixture screws from the 60’s.
Yeah I’ve been doing this longer than most here.
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:03 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
The factory advertising says 33mpg for era.
Keep up the good work.. |
tell me lies tell me sweet little lies....
33 in a bug? sure. bus? fat chance |
Irony
Still better than anybody’s getting, but hey I’m a unicorn.
And ironically enough I said “ads”, VW advertising agrees with me.
And well so does motortrend.
Big fricking snore as usual.
I hope all you’re kids are in the debate club, reality is bigger than a bleep screen.
FYI
My bus scaled at 400lbs over a bug or squareback. Radial lt tires, 20/50 castrol
Stock height, performance shocks.
It’s really too bad simpletons can’t math the bolt on gains over stock.
And euro, you with your research about me on the net.
In one post you hit every claim about me, all by yourself.
If you’re lucky maybe I’ll teach a class when I don’t have anything better to do.
You and your “friends” are unhinged to say the least.
If I was the only guy who claimed these numbers maybe, but guess what? There’s a search feature here.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110016815001714
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8909486#8909486
If you need me I’ll be laughing my ass off, passing you carrying more and getting better gas mileage.
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ChrisFred
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2014
Posts: 322
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
| ChrisFred wrote: |
| anyone who claims 30 MPG with 9 people in the bus or with a camper kit is a liar. Unless their engine is running so lean that it is running off of fumes alone, Most should expect anywhere between 19-25 MPG for a Bus. For T1, it will get better MPG solely off of less weight. |
It’s too bad you weren’t around for quality gas.
I’m surprised none of you geeks came up with a formula that shows the fuel economy lost to save the environment with oxygenated gas compared to the OG formulation.
That’s the only coralation I see valid, blaming history as a lie in pretty thin.
Or maybe none of you understands basic wrenching skills.
I remember when I rebuilt my carbs and fuel mixture screws were profiled different for the different specific gravity of the new fuels in (1990) compared to the German mixture screws from the 60’s.
Yeah I’ve been doing this longer than most here. |
It seems that engineers decided to focus on making cars more efficient than improving the gas productivity at combustion. But then again, do you blame big companies? I don't think we can blame a generation of people. Big companies wanted to introduce planned obsolescence and percieved obsolescence. VW is no different. But obsolescence was much more ethical back then than it is now with technology making things become ticking time bombs.
However, we also improved technology and over time we have made 4-cyl engines achieve upwards of 50mpg on what some today may call "crappy gas" compared to gas back in the 1950's or so. |
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melville
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2006
Posts: 1246
Location: Just Outside the Redwood Curtain
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
| ChrisFred wrote: |
| anyone who claims 30 MPG with 9 people in the bus or with a camper kit is a liar. Unless their engine is running so lean that it is running off of fumes alone, Most should expect anywhere between 19-25 MPG for a Bus. For T1, it will get better MPG solely off of less weight. |
It’s too bad you weren’t around for quality gas.
I’m surprised none of you geeks came up with a formula that shows the fuel economy lost to save the environment with oxygenated gas compared to the OG formulation.
That’s the only coralation I see valid, blaming history as a lie in pretty thin.
Or maybe none of you understands basic wrenching skills.
I remember when I rebuilt my carbs and fuel mixture screws were profiled different for the different specific gravity of the new fuels in (1990) compared to the German mixture screws from the 60’s.
Yeah I’ve been doing this longer than most here. |
In a carbureted application there is no mileage lost to oxygenated fuel unless you have rejetted to correct the slightly lean condition that oxygenated fuel creates.
It's the fuel injected vehicles with Lambda sensors that lose mileage with oxy fuel as the O2 sensor sends a 'lean' signal to the computer which then compensates in real time. In stock Bays, this would be 1979 models only IIRC.
Oxy fuel was first brought out as a way to reduce carbon monoxide pollution from carbureted vehicles. When I lived in Seattle, it was a winter-only thing to compensate for the increased amount of time older vehicles spent on the choke in colder weather, spewing out the CO.
Oxy fuel continues as a boondoggle and a big giveaway to the corn farmers and Archer Daniels Midland.
Here's some real world data regarding Bay gas mileage:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/kombi/1971/melville/139872
http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/campmobile/1974/melville/91806
The Kombi was quite close to stock. 34 PICT and a stock cam on a Berg 1679 kit. The Westy had a CS clone mit Kadrons.
So when you're ready to have us believe you, please post up your logbooks from your 500K miles at 35 mpg.
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79 R100RS
78 R100/7
75 R75/6
65 Standard Micro
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Spezialist wrote: |
| Meh, you’ve called bullshite on me before, ten years later I produced evidence and shut you up.. |
when did you "shut me up" ? chances are, I just walked away because, you know...it's you...and there is zero reasoning with you....
the forum at large has recorded the numbers that I state..24 is about the holy grail number buddy...carb or FI...stock or modified....or running a watercooled gas or diesel.
so you mean to tell me you're the only guy that has hit 35mpg in a bay? even the rock star bus cross country driving consultants haven't hit anything better than 24..
I have seen your posts on other forums....which leads me to believe that you are really off center, and reality (real world or otherwise) is something you just fail to accept.
just to prove that I am a nice guy....and that you are some internet hero who will not put your money where your mouth is.....I will pay to transport your 35mpg bus out to Connecticut, pay to fly you here to prove it to me.
we will calibrate a 35 mile loop, your speedo, GPS and 1 US gallon of gasoline. I want to see for myself a baywindow with a 1600 get 35 miles to 1 gallon of gas. and, you must average 45-50 mph...that is real world speed. and...no bullshit "coasting" down hill or any of the other hyper-miler bullshit that 99% of real world drivers DO NOT do.
I want to see the results as any average bus owner would drive a bus. not some kick it in neutral, shut the bus off and coast for 1/4 mile bullshit...real world averages here
if I am wrong, you win. if I am right, I want double my money back. let me know how you want to proceed. and to make it fair...YOU have to get 35mpg out of it, and I have to get 35mpg out of it...just to prove it is possible. I will drive it EXACTLY like you...and we will both be in the bus together...for better or worse....we will leave friends, or not....I don't care one way or the other...
so, lets do it. we will start a youtube channel so everyone can see this magical 35 mpg baywindow. |
Appeal to the crowd and personal attacks in the same post! -2 points!
Did I miss anything? |
This is better than the Special Olympics... and WAY more special! |
Kinda funny, really. My claim for mileage isn’t much over the advertised rates for a 70 panel. I’ve stated I don’t drive in over loaded conditions and my few bolt on mods make it simple to try yourself. Some guys like driving their fat grandma purses around I guess.
When looking at a factory owners manual of the period VW states to drive the car briskly.
That and having the lightest van as a base it’s a cinch.. |
Which ads?
1970 owner's manual lists 22,6 MPG US as standard here:
... and that's actual measured consumption PLUS 10%, half load, at 53 MPH on a flat road, as it states. If you're getting 35 MPG something is way the hell wrong. My guess is your mileage counter is way off. |
Only if I claim it, got it.
Bias ply tire, tight valves, oil weight, all of the tune specs, exhaust, etc etc
Kinda missing the ad that showed em all on an island getting 26mpg
My mileage gains were before gas was oxygenated.
PNW in early 90’s, when you were managing Kmart in the Midwest.
I had brought my California smog tricks to Oregon, unlike you I’ve been in the car business my whole life.
The mean or the average? |
26 MPG on a Bug isn't 30 in a Bus. A Split isn't a Bay.
I started my apprenticeship 43 years ago last month. Even when I was in retail district management it was automotive division so I'm not understanding your point.
Don't give me the "before gas was oxygenated" bullshit either because I've probably been driving for close to your lifespan. 
Rodney you're a good guy and a great debater but I am a master debater.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
This is the Bay window forum. Please remove all data from T1, which aren't being discussed in this thread, and just post Bay Window Bus data or ads.
If you don't have any such data supporting >30 mpg consumption of a Bay Window Bus in real world conditions, then retract your statements.
The Trump Minister of Information approach won't cut it here. |
Because motortrend listed a squareback as having 32 average mpg in the 69 model year?
With the exact same engine I claim to have reached similar numbers, probably even a universal case.
But thanks for bringing politics into it,
Facts don’t matter here, got it.
And remember FI didn’t get better mileage George. |
Fuck Motortrend. I go with what the manufacturer claims.
Here's 1967- carbureted:
Here's '68 with FI but still swing axle:
Here's '69 with FI and IRS:
26.4 MPG x 3.
Go fish.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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I’m pretty sure I averaged about 240 miles per tank, for the win.
Guess George used up one of his brownies for that fail.
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melville
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2006
Posts: 1246
Location: Just Outside the Redwood Curtain
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
I’m pretty sure I averaged about 240 miles per tank, for the win.
Guess George used up one of his brownies for that fail. |
So in a Bay, that would be about 15 mpg if you got all the way to E every time. As much as 20 mpg if you got to 1/4 full as a regular thing.
Show your log book if you want anyone to believe you.
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2000 M Roadster
79 R100RS
78 R100/7
75 R75/6
65 Standard Micro
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
I’m pretty sure I averaged about 240 miles per tank, for the win.
Guess George used up one of his brownies for that fail. |
How is 26 MPG 35 MPG? Maybe you should read shit before you post it. 
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7632
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: What's your MPG (miles per gallon) fuel gas mileage FAQ |
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| Spezialist wrote: |
| I’m pretty sure I averaged about 240 miles per tank, for the win. |
Maybe the lighter weight small fuel tank in your bus helps
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Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
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I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
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My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
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