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Wide five disc brakes for type 3
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vwbyoy88
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is what it looks like after the modification
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I just bought the AC Ind. kit to do this on my Notch. I have a question about the stock bolts that bolt from the back, the two that are protruding in the top pic. What do we have to do to those after we modify the holes on the spindle to accept the new bracket? Do we have to get shorter bolts that bolt flush so they don't hit the back of the bracket?

(sorry if I'm being redundant here, I've read and re-read this thread several times and saw where this was asked, but I didn't see the answer)
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flyinglow94
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwbyoy88 wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is what it looks like after the modification
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I just bought the AC Ind. kit to do this on my Notch. I have a question about the stock bolts that bolt from the back, the two that are protruding in the top pic. What do we have to do to those after we modify the holes on the spindle to accept the new bracket? Do we have to get shorter bolts that bolt flush so they don't hit the back of the bracket?

(sorry if I'm being redundant here, I've read and re-read this thread several times and saw where this was asked, but I didn't see the answer)


They are cut and ground flush to the spindle. I think after I had done that I had removed them and used red locktite and re installed them.
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vwbyoy88
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you sir!!
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyinglow94 wrote:
vwbyoy88 wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is what it looks like after the modification
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I just bought the AC Ind. kit to do this on my Notch. I have a question about the stock bolts that bolt from the back, the two that are protruding in the top pic. What do we have to do to those after we modify the holes on the spindle to accept the new bracket? Do we have to get shorter bolts that bolt flush so they don't hit the back of the bracket?

(sorry if I'm being redundant here, I've read and re-read this thread several times and saw where this was asked, but I didn't see the answer)


They are cut and ground flush to the spindle. I think after I had done that I had removed them and used red locktite and re installed them.


Yup, that's what I did. Cut the bolts flush first, then remove them, and add red loctite, then re-install them.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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vwbyoy88
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah, okay. I'll pick some up on the way home. I snapped mine off in the removal process Embarassed .

Guess I don't know my own stremf. Rolling Eyes
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vwbyoy88
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and uh....who has the spacer? Wink

I'm going to see if I can get one made by a buddy of mine at his work.

Will let y'all know how this goes. I cut the bracket off today and ground the bolts flush. I've got to replace the broken ones, so I'm going to get all new ones to make it all nice.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwbyoy88 wrote:
Oh, and uh....who has the spacer? Wink

I'm going to see if I can get one made by a buddy of mine at his work.

Will let y'all know how this goes. I cut the bracket off today and ground the bolts flush. I've got to replace the broken ones, so I'm going to get all new ones to make it all nice.


Get the spacer thru Chris (aka flyinglow94), it'll save you all the messing around with getting the sizes right.
As for the bolts, make sure they are 10.9 grade metric bolts, or they could snap while driving.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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vwbyoy88
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if I've got my math right, the O.D. of the spacer should be 2.75" correct? I've got a guy who can cut it for me, I just want to be sure of the right size.

Thanks!


Jimmy F.
67 Sunroof Notch Project
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dumptdeluxe
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am done with the spacer I bought from flyinglow94 now if anyone needs it. $10 shipped.

This means that I have successfully completed this mod but haven't bolted on yet because I need two lower ball joints and don't have $80 right now Shocked I also am trying to sort out the master cylinder swap...I have the early master in the car now. The EMPI kit came with another master that I assume is for a car being converted to front disc, so proper for my application. My question is this: There are two more brake line holes in the new master as opposed to the old one (3 in old, 5 in new). Has anyone tackled this part of the kit? Is this even the proper master cylinder I'm starin' at? And what to do with the reservoir?

Thanks!
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dumptdeluxe wrote:
I also am trying to sort out the master cylinder swap...I have the early master in the car now. The EMPI kit came with another master that I assume is for a car being converted to front disc, so proper for my application. My question is this: There are two more brake line holes in the new master as opposed to the old one (3 in old, 5 in new). Has anyone tackled this part of the kit? Is this even the proper master cylinder I'm starin' at? And what to do with the reservoir?

Thanks!


That master cylinder is for a bug. I used a late t-3 dual circuit one on my car. The extra ports you're seeing are for the seperate brake lines for the front and the extra brake light switch. I also went to a dual circuit brake fluid jug, and just blue hosed in to the master cylinder.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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dumptdeluxe
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I started with: caliper brackets, spindles, and spacer ring from flyinglow94 (thanks!)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Finished with the chunks I cut off
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Back side of finished spindle. I drilled and tapped three new holes instead of using factory hole for one of them, I couldn't get the holes to line up on it to my liking.....hope this doesn't cause any issues. If anything, I'm hoping to avoid the control arm clearance issue by doing this
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Disassembled and painted using Duplicolor caliper paints....I can't afford the powder! Evil or Very Mad
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I'd love to hear any feedback as this has been a bit of an adventure but will be soooo worth it!
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dumptdeluxe
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
dumptdeluxe wrote:
I also am trying to sort out the master cylinder swap...I have the early master in the car now. The EMPI kit came with another master that I assume is for a car being converted to front disc, so proper for my application. My question is this: There are two more brake line holes in the new master as opposed to the old one (3 in old, 5 in new). Has anyone tackled this part of the kit? Is this even the proper master cylinder I'm starin' at? And what to do with the reservoir?

Thanks!


That master cylinder is for a bug. I used a late t-3 dual circuit one on my car. The extra ports you're seeing are for the seperate brake lines for the front and the extra brake light switch. I also went to a dual circuit brake fluid jug, and just blue hosed in to the master cylinder.


Great info, thanks! Does the late T3 master have the correct amount of ports or would I need to plug a port or two?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dumptdeluxe wrote:

Back side of finished spindle. I drilled and tapped three new holes instead of using factory hole for one of them, I couldn't get the holes to line up on it to my liking.....hope this doesn't cause any issues. If anything, I'm hoping to avoid the control arm clearance issue by doing this
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'd love to hear any feedback as this has been a bit of an adventure but will be soooo worth it!


I'd try and mount the steering arms before you get too far along. I only say that, because when I moved the caliper bracket over some on mine, I had to clearance the new caliper bracket to clear the arm. I personally felt this was the way to go, since it allowed more meat for the caliper bolts to have on the spindle. I only mention this, as the bolt holes Chris used, looked pretty close to the edges for my comfort.

I did drive my car since I did the conversion, and the front brakes feel as good as any other disc braked car I've driven. I even went with DoT 5 brake fluid on mine. Very Happy

The later style t-3 master cylinder will have some of the same issues that you're currently looking at (but will have thru holes, instead of tapped holes to mount the MC). Basically you use an extra brake light switch to plug the extra hole on the side (there should only be 1 extra hole), and you'll need to do something with the brake fluid feed hoses and jug. Some say to split the hose, but I'd rather replace the jug and hoses to the later style. This eliminates the need to step up/down the hose sizes to take into account for the different sizes of the inlet fittings on the master cylinder (later style uses 8mm hose), and the single outlet of the stock jug (uses 7mm hose and a steel line).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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dumptdeluxe
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advice. I will test fit the steering arms today and report back. Thanks, Bob!

Anyone have a late T3 master cylinder or reservoir? Or where to get one that isn't $200? Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any reason that I can't use this one in the kit? (Other than it's made for a bug? Rolling Eyes ) Different bore and/or pushrod depth?
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a picture I took of an old type 3 duel circuit master cylinder and a new master provided in the kit. Notice at the rubber boot the length of the old and new one. The old one is longer and is for type 3 . They both have the same amount of ports but the type 3 has them in the correct locations.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.."
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is what I had done with the bug duel circuit master cylinder on my 66 bug. I used I single circuit fluid tank and made a manifold to break it into a duel circuit. Sense it is on a side that has no pressure it worked flawlessly.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: 'tis dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.."
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyinglow94 wrote:
Here is a picture I took of an old type 3 duel circuit master cylinder and a new master provided in the kit. Notice at the rubber boot the length of the old and new one. The old one is longer and is for type 3 . They both have the same amount of ports but the type 3 has them in the correct locations.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also note the front fitting on the rusty looking master cylinder. You'll see it's almost flat against the MC. That's because that line needs to clear the tie rods. Surprised
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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jimmynotch
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:


I did drive my car since I did the conversion, and the front brakes feel as good as any other disc braked car I've driven. I even went with DoT 5 brake fluid on mine. Very Happy


What is the difference in brake fluids? DoT3 or 5 or whatever?
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimmynotch wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:


I did drive my car since I did the conversion, and the front brakes feel as good as any other disc braked car I've driven. I even went with DoT 5 brake fluid on mine. Very Happy


What is the difference in brake fluids? DoT3 or 5 or whatever?


Dot 3brake fluid is what you normally find in vehicles (VW or otherwise) Dot 4 I think has a higher boiling point, but is compatable with Dot 3. Dot 5 is silicone based, so it doesn't absorb water (like Dot3 & 4 do), and it greases the rubber seals, along with retarding rust. It's better for cars that see limited use, or are kept in high humidity areas.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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