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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:40 am Post subject: Post Barndoor, Wolfsburg Bus Features And Changes |
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ok, here it is. this thread is to discuss and photo-document the changes, be they subtle or significant, to Wolfsburg built, post barndoor busses.
pics of these oddities, and dates/vin numbers of the vehicles they are on would help immensely to try to pin down dates things changed, or what might be "correct" for certain months.
Moderator notes:
Some Hannover data:
From a Volkswagen corporation web site:
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The decision to build a commercial vehicle plant at Hanover was taken in 1955. On March 1, 1955, the foundation stone was laid and a year later, on March 8, 1956, the first Volkswagen Transporter rolled off the assembly line. |
Another VW corp. site:
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The first Transporters leave the production line at the newly built Volkswagen Transporter factory in Hanover on 8th March. Series production begins on 20th April. |
From a non-Volkswagen VW history site:
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The new factory was built at Hannover and the first transporter came off its assembly line on the 9th of March 1955 (chassis number 171056).
On the 19th April 1956 all transporter production at the Wolfsburg plant was ceased and transfered over to Hannover (from chassis number 178004). |
Progressive Refinements entry:
During the period from March 8, 1956 to April 19, 1956 production continued at both plants, leading to some overlap. |
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Clara said:
BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
hazetguy wrote: |
BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
There are a lot of little features about post Barndoor '55's and early '56's. They were still made in Wolfsburg and have a lot of transition characteristics that make them unique. They continued the Barndoor "Long Rib" Front Bumper, Barndoor style "Seamed Doglegs", Tubular transmission hanger, 6 legged Middle Seat, Rubber Seal around the Gas Door, Flat, non-lipped, and large mesh front air vent screens, the Rear Seat bottom has a very sharp ended middle leg (same as Barndoor rear seats), Barndoor style Bakelite Domelights, Semaphores on very early ones up through roughly May or June I believe regardless of destination, early style decklid rear bracing, single position rear hatches, and a handful of other little details. |
i have seen at least 2 different variations on the flat air vent. my 2/56 wolfsburg standard has a lipped vent. large mesh screen changed relatively early, my 10/55 westy had small mesh.
bakelite domelights ended near or before october 55.
early declkids changed some time between october 55 and feb 56. my westy had early style, standard has later style, both are original to the busses.
single prop also changed some time between dates mentioned above. my westy had one stop, standard has 2 stops.
i tried to document some of the wolfsburg differences in the gallery.
if you search the word wolfsburg by me, you will see some of them. |
I've seen all kinds of weird combinations on those details as well. I used to have a late 1956 production Standard that Greg bought from me that had none of the Wolfsburg features except that it had the early style rubber seal around the gas door and the lack of the rubber bumpers/support inside the door. Charlie saw it many years ago and commented that he'd never seen that late of a Bus with that feature and we never saw any sign of panel replacement on the Bus at all. I've seen odd stuff too like a Bus with about 80% of the early features but a 2 position rear hatch, etc.
I just made a general assumption that if this Deluxe mentioned here were to be a early 1955 that still had semaphores it was likely around a March/April/May-ish Bus that likely had more than a small handful of those earlier characteristics. I also have a early 1955 Kombi that has all of those features. |
Not all of the Wolfsburg buses had all the features you mentioned. One of the interesting things about wolfsburg buses, including post barndoor wolfburg buses, is that more changes were going one than later when buses became more standardised... well you could almost say that about any arbitrary time you feel like. Anyhow, I've heard a bunch of people be confused because their Wolfsburg bus didn't have, say, bakelite domelites. When not all did, but they read something like your post which made them think they should get it for the bus. See what I mean?
campingbox wrote: |
Hey Jon-
Our Jan '56 subhatch has the early decklid and the single position rear hatch.
The front glass slider latches are different and don't take a washer like the later ones.
Greg |
_________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=202405
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=202403
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=202402
from 2/56 vin 172606
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=194146
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=194145
10/55 westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=105609
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=105608
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=105605
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=105603
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=105602
some other things:
in a VW technical bulletin, the "20-" engine numbers, and "20-" vin numbers were used until Dec 31, 1955
on early versions, the rear brake lines were not routed through those little tab brackets that attach to the upper rear reduction box mounting bolt. they run to the front of the reduction box, between the springplate and reduction box. this can be seen in the 1955 service manual.
oh yeah, and those GHE middle size spoon latches. greg i know your and my 10/55 westfalias have them, but since i had to put both latches in my 2/56, would they be correct for that month? _________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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VolksWouteŽ Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 377 Location: The Netherlands
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
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hazetguy wrote: |
on early versions, the rear brake lines were not routed through those little tab brackets that attach to the upper rear reduction box mounting bolt. they run to the front of the reduction box, between the springplate and reduction box. this can be seen in the 1955 service manual.
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How late did that run? Curious if my 10-55 should have the lines routed like that.
The post barndoor '55 cab doors are unique around the handle area as well. |
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stephenmullens Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 1927 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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This is great. I'll post some pics of my late '55 kombi soon. And some bits of info Greg and others have given me over the last year as well. |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12384
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: |
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About Wolfsburg to Hannover
(From Progressive refinements:)
19 Mar. 56 VIN 169 193 Transmission suspension
U-section support arms and cross members
20 Apr. 56 VIN 178 004 Engine and transmission suspension
Now: U-section support arms and cross members (standard)
Formerly: tubes
1956
8 Mar. 56 VIN 178 004 - VW Transporter
Production begins at Hanover
(continuous)
my interpretation:
Here we have two different VINs and three different dates.
Yes, VWs records are inconsistant in detail, but maybe 8 March was when they started production in Hannover, and it took a while for the first one to roll off the line.
Maybe the best was to read the two dates/numbers of the tube to U change is that for about a thousand buses the U section part was not yet standard, and was "fitted in a number of cases", while sometimes the tube style was used. Then the U style was standard.
As the production is "continuous" as they started up the Hannover plant...seems like they were also still making buses at Wolfsburg for a little bit. I'd think the new pile of U style went to the new plant.
I consider the tubular frame under the transmission as the defining characteristic of a Wolfsburg bus. _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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campingbox wrote: |
hazetguy wrote: |
on early versions, the rear brake lines were not routed through those little tab brackets that attach to the upper rear reduction box mounting bolt. they run to the front of the reduction box, between the springplate and reduction box. this can be seen in the 1955 service manual.
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How late did that run? Curious if my 10-55 should have the lines routed like that.
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from the service manual.
early routing:
late routing and chassis breakdown:
_________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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thom Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000 Posts: 5943 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Wolfsburg buses don't have the 'lip' around the fresh air inlet screen above the windshield. _________________ -Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:50 am Post subject: |
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hazetguy wrote: |
campingbox wrote: |
hazetguy wrote: |
on early versions, the rear brake lines were not routed through those little tab brackets that attach to the upper rear reduction box mounting bolt. they run to the front of the reduction box, between the springplate and reduction box. this can be seen in the 1955 service manual.
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How late did that run? Curious if my 10-55 should have the lines routed like that.
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from the service manual.
early routing:
late routing and chassis breakdown:
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Interesting that the service manual calls is "20-169XXX".
I thought they dropped the 20- prefix in January '56? My Jan '56 subhatch doesn't have the 20- prefix stamped into the body. The VIN number is 161XXX. |
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mynameismud Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2002 Posts: 5922 Location: Middle of a corn field
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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thom wrote: |
Wolfsburg buses don't have the 'lip' around the fresh air inlet screen above the windshield. |
Mine does.
It also has the tube tranny, seamed doglegs, and gas flap seal (thou- the seal is long gone.. )
2-position rear hatch
and if i figure this correct- the VIN makes it a very late March production?
Mar 174 402 1 377 738 176 437 Mar. 8 - Hannover production begins (continuous) _________________ Even YOU can prevent FIRES!
Click to view image
Last edited by mynameismud on Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: |
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mynameismud wrote: |
thom wrote: |
Wolfsburg buses don't have the 'lip' around the fresh air inlet screen above the windshield. |
Mine does. |
so does mine, 2/1956, 172606.
i know of 3 different styles>
first: no lip, totally flat metal under the roof except between the vents, wide mesh screen. http://www.keverbusjes.stx.nl/1955details/IMG_3296-verkleint.jpg
second: no lip, metal has indents towards the outsides of the metal under the roof, tight mesh screen.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=105605
third: lip, metal has indents towards the outsides of the metal under the roof, tight mesh screen. as seen on the rest of production.
paul, mid april? WTF? that is really late to have that stuff, dontcha think? _________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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mynameismud Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2002 Posts: 5922 Location: Middle of a corn field
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
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now- i'm curious about the bullet drain holes on mine. (never knew that) _________________ Even YOU can prevent FIRES!
Click to view image |
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mynameismud Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2002 Posts: 5922 Location: Middle of a corn field
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: |
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hazetguy wrote: |
paul, mid april? WTF? that is really late to have that stuff, dontcha think? |
I mis-spoke (multi-tasking at work) and not thinking about what i was saying-
late March _________________ Even YOU can prevent FIRES!
Click to view image |
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hazetguy Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001 Posts: 10773 Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
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your certificate says april. _________________ thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
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mynameismud Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2002 Posts: 5922 Location: Middle of a corn field
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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well- damn..it certainly does- but the VIN puts it before the end of March - doesn't it? _________________ Even YOU can prevent FIRES!
Click to view image |
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VolksWouteŽ Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003 Posts: 377 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I really like this thread , crazy stuff is beeing discovered! |
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Metalwizard Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2003 Posts: 696 Location: Archdale, NC
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
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thom wrote: |
Wolfsburg buses don't have the 'lip' around the fresh air inlet screen above the windshield. |
Thom the 56 single i cut the rear section out for your jig it had the lip on the vent, 3 pcs dog legs, long bumper things, Danny scored the front bumper for his barndoor, I think Greg bought the crusty rear bumper from me at Bulli a couple to 3 years ago. i'll ck and see if i can find the vin on it, Later _________________ http://s461.photobucket.com/albums/qq335/Metalwizard/
Kelly aka
"Bubble & Nut Buster for wannabe BadBoy's of Restoration"
"There is no cure for Stupid"
ITMC "Drill SGT" |
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Rain's Westy Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2004 Posts: 498
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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campingbox wrote: |
hazetguy wrote: |
on early versions, the rear brake lines were not routed through those little tab brackets that attach to the upper rear reduction box mounting bolt. they run to the front of the reduction box, between the springplate and reduction box. this can be seen in the 1955 service manual.
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How late did that run? Curious if my 10-55 should have the lines routed like that.
The post barndoor '55 cab doors are unique around the handle area as well. |
my 2/56 has the lines through the brackets on the back of the boxes like later busses. |
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Rain's Westy Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2004 Posts: 498
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I will go out and take a look at my bus ( 2/56) in the next few days and see what weird things I notice . Mine has the round seal on the gas door, , six leg middle seat - but later floor mat, early steering gear, early decklid , early battery tray, and a strange mix of window glass with early and later logos . narrow front bumper license plate area, 4 part doglegs, later vent screen . |
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