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Chory
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2006
Posts: 1318
Location: Jefferson Westside, Eugene, Oregon, USA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Wolfe wrote: |
The original relay was not made by Bosch. It was made by SWF, IIRC, without looking at one.
VW used many different manufacturers to supply parts for their cars. |
Both of mine seem to be OG, and they are both stamped Bosch; this on a '71. Of course they could both have been replaced at some point in the distant past, but I doubt it; they look to be age appropriate (36 yrs).
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Current Fleet:
‘07 Saab 9-4 2L Turbo (GM era, US bild)
‘91 Honda Beat (JDM, mid-engine, KEI) |
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pilcher
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2006
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| could a blockage stop the whole car? It seems like there would be some fuel getting there. And does anyone have a diagram of what the fuel lines look like? |
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Chory
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2006
Posts: 1318
Location: Jefferson Westside, Eugene, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Couple things could be happening here.
if the wiring is running to the pump backward, the pump will pump backward thus not servicing the fuel lines with fuel
(if you search around on this site, you will find the method for clearing a clogged pump which entails submerging the pump in Diesel fuel and running it backwards through just such a measure and then again forwards, forcing the "gunk" out of it)
I would assume that this (inverted wiring) essentially just pumps air into the petrol tank.
Alternately, the pump itself could be full of sludge, thus not filling the lines with fuel (in which case, see above).
The filter could be clogged, disallowing fuel to run past it.
Or, the lines could be clogged thus not sending fuel to the engine.
Or they could be broken—in which case there would be fuel dumping out somewhere from beneath the car.
So, the line runs from the tank into the filter, from there into the pump.
The pump has one out line and two in lines (there are two different versions of the pump, so check your configuration—the return line is either on the side, or on the far right of the pump nearest the power terminal when all three vlaves are lined up in a row).
From the pump the line runs through the tunnel to the LEFT side of the engine, to the left injectors, across the top of the engine to the right injectors.
Then it goes to the fuel pressure regulator, and then back through the tunnel, and on back to the return line in the pump.
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Current Fleet:
‘07 Saab 9-4 2L Turbo (GM era, US bild)
‘91 Honda Beat (JDM, mid-engine, KEI) |
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pilcher
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2006
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| DO additives that are supposed to clear out the crap, do more harm than good? I should have mentioned i put seafoam in the engine not too long ago. I heard this will harden up all the lines, does anyone know if this is true? |
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Chory
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2006
Posts: 1318
Location: Jefferson Westside, Eugene, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I would personally put nothing but oil in the engine. Especially not anything which I have heard can "harden" or "Clog." The same would be true for the fuel tank.
_________________
Be kind…
Current Fleet:
‘07 Saab 9-4 2L Turbo (GM era, US bild)
‘91 Honda Beat (JDM, mid-engine, KEI) |
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Chory
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2006
Posts: 1318
Location: Jefferson Westside, Eugene, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Chory wrote: |
Replacement relay:
Terminals numbered:
----87---
86 87 85
----30----
Shall I just omit the push-on plastic connector and wire direct to the apropriate terminals with spade-connectors?
Regarding "apropriate" terminals:
Bentley diagram shows three wires to the under dash relay
one gray - term. 85 to ECU
one blue & yellow - term. 86 to under-seat ECU relay
one black & red - term. 30/51 to fuse box
one empty terminal - term. 87 (is this where power runs out to the pump?)
I have:
One Gray - term. 86
(which runs to a plastic connector alongside)
One Blue & Yellow (faded to white) - term. 85
Two Red (one going to the fuse box [term 30/51], one toward the rear of the car[term. 87])
the relay I have also has a single unused terminal (paired at term. 87)...for a total of 5 terminals...with no ground.
What's up with that? Why are term 85 & 86 wires transposed? Where to does the red wire run from term 87, which Bentley shows as unused (or is that the wire which runs power to the pump? why is it not shown in the Bentley?)? I presume that term. 30 on the replacement is = to term 30/51 on the old one...right?
The new relay is plastic, should I ground it in some manner as the old one seemed to be ground at the body of the car? Or does the under-seat relay ground wire (brown) function to ground the entirety of the system? |
Anyone able to clarify I have this wired correctly?
One red wire to fuse panel, one to pump.
I am getting a click from the under-seat relay, and from the ECU.
BUT THE NEW PUMP IS QUIET and I cannot hear if it’s running. And also: no start.
With new pump (Airtex e2000) in, is there some reason I couldn’t simply bypass this relay and have the pump just run constantly?
She won’t even try to turn over: but I’ll het to that later.
_________________
Be kind…
Current Fleet:
‘07 Saab 9-4 2L Turbo (GM era, US bild)
‘91 Honda Beat (JDM, mid-engine, KEI) |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22410
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Chory wrote: |
| Chory wrote: |
Replacement relay:
Terminals numbered:
----87---
86 87 85
----30----
Shall I just omit the push-on plastic connector and wire direct to the apropriate terminals with spade-connectors?
Regarding "apropriate" terminals:
Bentley diagram shows three wires to the under dash relay
one gray - term. 85 to ECU
one blue & yellow - term. 86 to under-seat ECU relay
one black & red - term. 30/51 to fuse box
one empty terminal - term. 87 (is this where power runs out to the pump?)
I have:
One Gray - term. 86
(which runs to a plastic connector alongside)
One Blue & Yellow (faded to white) - term. 85
Two Red (one going to the fuse box [term 30/51], one toward the rear of the car[term. 87])
the relay I have also has a single unused terminal (paired at term. 87)...for a total of 5 terminals...with no ground.
What's up with that? Why are term 85 & 86 wires transposed? Where to does the red wire run from term 87, which Bentley shows as unused (or is that the wire which runs power to the pump? why is it not shown in the Bentley?)? I presume that term. 30 on the replacement is = to term 30/51 on the old one...right?
The new relay is plastic, should I ground it in some manner as the old one seemed to be ground at the body of the car? Or does the under-seat relay ground wire (brown) function to ground the entirety of the system? |
Anyone able to clarify I have this wired correctly?
One red wire to fuse panel, one to pump.
I am getting a click from the under-seat relay, and from the ECU.
BUT THE NEW PUMP IS QUIET and I cannot hear if it’s running. And also: no start.
With new pump (Airtex e2000) in, is there some reason I couldn’t simply bypass this relay and have the pump just run constantly?
She won’t even try to turn over: but I’ll het to that later. |
The relays should be wired like VW did them, and can be checked like shown on pages 17-19 of the fuel system. You can ground wire #19 in the engine compartment (left of center, front wall) to get the pump to run all the time the key is on. If you have a fuel gauge made up, you can verify if you have correct fuel pressure. Or, you can jump the front relay and send power directly to the fuel pump.
I hope this helps.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Chory
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2006
Posts: 1318
Location: Jefferson Westside, Eugene, Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel pump help |
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Thanks Bob!
Realising this may be an issue in that I had to jumper the stock wires over to the relocated pump: used 14-16gu wire…is this an issue?
_________________
Be kind…
Current Fleet:
‘07 Saab 9-4 2L Turbo (GM era, US bild)
‘91 Honda Beat (JDM, mid-engine, KEI) |
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