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Fix that Loose sliding door handle on an early Vanagon
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A picture is worth a thousand words. I believe the spring you are referring to returns the tumbler to it resting position.
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Moonunit
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, well that could be, but I don't think so. It is actually preventing me from turning the cylinder the full 180 degrees to complete the locking process and remove the key. Here's a pic of the spring on the end of the cylinder.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You'll notice how the spring ends extend past the end of the cylinder. Now that's not really a problem when inserting the cylinder into the handle because there are grooves in the handle where the ends can slide down in. But, when the cylinder is seated, those ends extend out into the rectangular cutout and prevent the cylinder from completing it's rotation. I know this is a little blurry, but I think you can see the spring end in the lower left corner of the rectangle.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I have also uploaded two other photo's to attempt to clarify and illustrate the problem. The are in "Category :: Vanagon/Eurovan - All" under the
heading "Sliding Door Lock Cylinder Spring Question" and are currently located at the top of this URL http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_cat.php?cat_id=58

Thanks.
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Moonunit
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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone? Someones gota have a suggestion, comment, or answer. Where are the locksmiths Sad
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you trying to use the handle in the picture above? It looks broken. The spring in the picture is the spring used to return the tumbler to the "rest position. I don't believe it goes in the tumbler housing of the handle, but on the outside under the screw area. I think you put the spring on after the tumbler is seated from the screw side. Pop a door handle off to see how the spring is supposed to work. I have never had my side door handle off, but seems all vw/audi tumblers use something similar.
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mightyart
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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea the handle in your picture is destroyed.
I just took apart a new handle, and didn't have any problems, just like in this post, I didn't have any spring problems.
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westylife
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mightyart,

I replaced mine because it was broken and got another one from a VW Mechnic here in town. No matter how tight I tighten up the screw (5M x 10) it still wobbles. When I put it in the slot where the handle goes, and move the handle up and down I can see the lock mechinsim Moving a bit. Is there any way to tighten that part up? or do I need a new lock mechinsim? Thanks for any help.

P.S. my new handle is not cracked.
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Axel Griese
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moonunit wrote:
Would it help if I posted a pic? Maybe someone could tell me what exactly is the purpose of that spring Confused


It makes the lock cylinder return to the center position after locking/unlocking.
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Moonunit
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Axel Griese wrote:
Moonunit wrote:
Would it help if I posted a pic? Maybe someone could tell me what exactly is the purpose of that spring Confused


It makes the lock cylinder return to the center position after locking/unlocking.


Man do I feel stupid! For some reason I was thinking that the key was supposed to go 180 degrees, then remove the key, like it is on the rear hatch, and I think that's how it is on my "72" as well. I finally just decided to put the damn thing together and try it. DOH! what an idiot. No wonder no one could figure out what the "H" I was talking about.

Thanks for the attempts to figure out what I was talking about and lend a hand, it's all good now! I did end up finding a very nice handle and some other door parts I needed for a VERY reasonable price from a guy on ebay. Imagine finding this stuff on my first search!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...1&rd=1
What a score! This after I trashed all those parts beyond use when my van rolled down the driveway with the slider open and took an 8" gate out at the hinges (ripped the 5/8" by 3 1/2" long lag bolt hangers out of an 8" fencepost) with the leading edge of the slider, another brilliant move.
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Moonunit
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Art,

In your third photo on page 1, is that where the washer with the square hole in it ends up on the re-install? Is it just a spacer? I put it on the end after the lock washer on the screw. Neither way seemed to make sense really, and I didn't see it in the manual. Thanks.
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Moonunit
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westylife wrote:
Mightyart,

I replaced mine because it was broken and got another one from a VW Mechnic here in town. No matter how tight I tighten up the screw (5M x 10) it still wobbles. When I put it in the slot where the handle goes, and move the handle up and down I can see the lock mechinsim Moving a bit. Is there any way to tighten that part up? or do I need a new lock mechinsim? Thanks for any help.

P.S. my new handle is not cracked.


Wondering if you could be a little more specific. I think all the handles have a small amount of free play, even when installed properly. If the actual lock cylinder seems unstable there is a "set screw" that holds the cylinder in the handle. It is shown in my 2nd photo as well as one of Art's I believe.
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westylife
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moonunit wrote:
westylife wrote:
Mightyart,

I replaced mine because it was broken and got another one from a VW Mechnic here in town. No matter how tight I tighten up the screw (5M x 10) it still wobbles. When I put it in the slot where the handle goes, and move the handle up and down I can see the lock mechinsim Moving a bit. Is there any way to tighten that part up? or do I need a new lock mechinsim? Thanks for any help.

P.S. my new handle is not cracked.


Wondering if you could be a little more specific. I think all the handles have a small amount of free play, even when installed properly. If the actual lock cylinder seems unstable there is a "set screw" that holds the cylinder in the handle. It is shown in my 2nd photo as well as one of Art's I believe.


Yeah, you are right they do have a little free play. I went to a shop and they told me the same thing. plus my buddys vans also does the same thing. Thanks for the heads up.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a guy selling a delron bushing that he made that would take up the play. It looked like a grommet between the handle and the door skin. I have trained my wife to grab the handle close to center when opening and closing the side door.
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vwsyncroguy
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: No set screw to release the cylinder. ?? Reply with quote

My key hangs up and won't unlock the door.....some tumbler adjustment is needed.

I've got the handle off...but don't see any set screw to hold the cylinder in place.

This is an 87 Syncro van.....different handle perhaps??

How do i get the cylinder out, with no set screw.

TIA

Warren C.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a small roll pin that needs to be knocked out?
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been a while since I messed with the later style slider handles, but there is a set screw, but its hole may be filled in with crud. I had fun with mine, as it was kind of worn, but persistence payed and I got it out. When you do find the hole, put some penetrating oil in it before you mess with it, it can get kind of frozen in there.
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Last edited by Dogpilot on Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I uploaded the ETK blow apart view.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Found set screw....now what ? Reply with quote

I found the little set screw hiding under some hardened grease. Got the lock cylinder out...very greasy with graphite type grease.

Now I'm not sure what I'm looking for...the cause of the hang up that won't let me lock the door. It unlocks, counterclockwise but key sometimes hangs up and won't turn clockwise.

When I put the key in it appears several tumblers protrude a little bit on one side...recessed on the other ..particularly the last tumbler....it will mash down flush if I press on it lightly, but it doesn't just fall into place when the key is inserted.

So if the tumblers are recessed on oneside of the cylinder is ...that why it unlocks in the counter clockwise direction ??? ..then the one protruding on the other side prevent it from going clockwise??? I know this isn't rocket science, but I don't quite get how it's all suppposed to work yet.

There's a lot of grease on the cylinder....should there be so much? Seems like the friction of the grease could cause the tumblers to hang up a little when the key is inserted.

If the tumblers are supposed to fall down flush when the key is inserted...but don't...do I just file them down until they're flush?

Then there's the spring that returns the key to center postion. Confused about how to get that back in place. Am I supposed to put that on the end of the cylinder before sliding the whole thing back in.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use some brake clean or other solvent to get the cylinder clean. The little wafers are spring loaded with incredibly tiny springs. The tumblers should all be flush when the key is inserted. You can pull the offending wafer out and see if it is the offending one by testing without it. You can either file the top down a bit, until it is level or remove it entirely. The lock will work with fewer wafers (be sure to get the little spring as well). You can re-assemble it with a little dry graphite. VW, oddly enough, uses grease on new ones.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Getting the concept Reply with quote

I got it apart and now grasp the whole concept...Somebody really greased the sh__ out of this thing.

Got most of the thick grease off and removed and cleaned the wafers....careful of the tiny springs...haven't lost any yet.

When re-assembled, several of the wafers stick up a tiny bit...one more than others. Wonder if it might partially be cause the key is worn.

Also wonder if the ends of that spring that stick out past the cylinder hang on anything ?? Are they supposed to stick out like that?

Is the number on the square handle shaft the key code? Maybe I'll start by having a new key made from the code.

Warren C.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good key is a key starting point. The parts that stick out on either side are part of the way they lock up. Wrong key will make some stick out on top, some on the bottom. You can remove material from either end, or as I mentioned, if it is a lot, not use that wafer. Sometimes re-arranging them can make it better, they are all different sizes.
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