Starter/Ign Switch Problem..Can someone help?

[Daniel G]

I have a '66 beetle that hasn't been run since 1983, and my starter will not work. I have searched all over for info on the problem, but I haven't had any luck with it. I have cleaned every connection between the starter and the switch, replaced the ignition switch, and it still won't work. I bridged the terminals on the starter and it works like that, but the switch does nothing, not even make it click. All the fuses are good as well. All the other electrical wired through the ignition switch works, except for the wipers, so I know that isn't the problem. Can anyone tell me what is wrong? Is something in my starter bad?

Also, it is still 6v (with a brand new battery)...

Thanks in advance for any help...


Daniel
_________________
1967 13 Window Deluxe

1966 Beetle

1971 Panel

1978 Westfalia Camper

Transmissions For Dummies

[glutamodo]

Have you put a voltmeter on terminal 50 on the ignition switch and seen if it really is putting out +6V when you go to "Start"? Do that, if you have +6V, good. Then repeat that with the voltmeter hooked up to terminal 50 on the starter. If there's no voltage reaching the starter, then you got a wiring problem. If there's a voltage drop between those two places, the solenoid may not want to kick. You can try a low-voltage relay kit hooked up by the starter, like WW sells (a relay needs much less juice to activate, and once activated, it's the same as crossing the starter terminals by hand like you've already done)

WW doesn't have a picture, but I'm assuming this is the same as the 12V kit that comes with a wiring harness:

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111998611

[drscope]

Daniel G, when you say you jumped the terminals on the starter and it worked, what do you mean happened?

Here's how the starter works....The big positive wire from the battery goes directly to the starter. There is a wire from the key switch that goes to the solenoid on the starter.

When you turn the key, juice flows through that small wire to the solenoid. This activates an electromagnet that operates the bendix and pulls the gear into the flywheel starter ring. When the solenoid is energized, it also completes the connection inside the starter for the juice comming from the battery can now turn the strter motor.

So the solenoid does 2 things, it engages the starter to the flywheel and sends power to the starter motor.

When you jump across those terminals, are you only getting a click from the solenoid jumping out, or is the starter motor also turning?

You may want to put a test light on that small wire going to the solenoid and see if you have power when the key is turned.

If you don't have a helper when doing this, you can replace your test light with a horn. Then if you have power when you turn the key, the horn will sound and you won't need 20 foot long arms with 13 elbows to see your test light.

If you have power when you turn the key, you know your wiring is good to the solenoid.

With high miles, the brushes in the starter motor wear down. If they don't make contact with the armature, when you turn the key you will hear the solenoid, but the starter motor won't turn

Replacing the solenoid is easy, and replacing the starter motor brushes is easy, you just need to find out which part is the offending one.

[Smurf]

I have a 6v system also and i just had this problem, and i replaced everything except the ignition switch and it works great now!

I got a new starter, new ground cable, new (+) cable, new wiring to my VR, and I even got the battery checked and charged...now it runs.

I think my selonoid(spelling) was bad, cause when i hi-jacked the starter with a screw driver, my selonoid would click, but it wouldn't turn the starter, but when i used my ignition key, I got nothing.
_________________
1962 Beetle
1977 Westfalia (Subaru Conversion)

"Traveling in a fried-out Kombi
On a hippie trail head full of zombie"
-Men at Work

[Daniel G]

Thanks for all the help guys. Through the process of elimination I have it narrowed down to the wiring, which must have a bad connection or resistance in it somewhere. So I am going to install a Ghia horn relay at the starter and hopefully that will take care of it. Now I guess the fun part will be finding a 6v relay...


Daniel
_________________
1967 13 Window Deluxe

1966 Beetle

1971 Panel

1978 Westfalia Camper

Transmissions For Dummies

[glutamodo]

Yeah, the hardest part is finding a 6V relay that'll handle the momentary pull-in current (see chart below) In addition to the Wolfsburg West link to the hard-start kit I posted above, I found these other sellers who had a Ghia horn relay:

http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=141951251C

http://www.karmannghia.com/viewDetail.asp?strMasterCat=&idproduct=4253

http://www.karmannkonnection.com/acatalog/Karmann_Konnection_New_Products__Beetle_26.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-GHIA-66-EARLIER-...enameZWD1V

Another relay you could be able to use is the headlight flasher relay that Ghia's had on them from like 1962-1965. That was a momentary-on relay that turned the high beams on only as long as you have the button on the turn signal switch depressed, so they are a high-amperage relay. I actually have such a relay, several years ago I tried to sell it on eBay but got no takers, but I still have it somewhere.

Here are the solenoid specs: