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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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 Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Not without a lift and some mods. |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Not without a lift and some mods. |
Exactly right.
Thats what I've had to do. Same sizes as Tcmd.
To Tmcd,
In the front you will want min 5mm spacer.. 8 max.
Without the spacer.. the 225 tire will make contact with the upper control arm.
And the tire will rub at the lower front and rear corners of the fender lip. These will need to be rolled (hammered back) or trimmed.
In the rear, you can run them bolt on.. but will need to grind 1-2+mm off of the control arm flange off in the forward corner. This will be very obvious when you first bolt them up. Do not forget to remove the two set screws on each drum on the rear.. or your new wheels will not mount up flush. (Very Dangerous!)
I use a 10-12mm spacer in the rear which helps match the front track. Spacers in the rear means new studs. (Was not installed yet in the image below.. Image taken while I was sorting out my own fitment a while back..)
Here's what they'll look like if you use a lift spring, too
I did not take a pic when they had no lift yet. These are syncro.org 2WD lift springs.. added 3/4-1" all around. Can't even tell the van is "lifted because the tire seriously fills up the wheel wells.
You *might* get away without lift spings.. but you'll need to trim sheet metal (or at a minimum roll fender lips even more).. or drive very sloooowly into and otu of driveways.
Contact Samba member Loogy (T3 Technique) for all the hardware you'll need.. One stop shopping.
Hope that helps.
Springs are another matter.. Use the search function.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Tmcd
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Shawnigan Lake, Vancouver Island, BC Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks very much for the info. Gives me basically all the answers I needed. I'd rather do little or no mods if possible. I've spent hours reading through the ultimate wheel posts but didn't see what the max tire size on my rims would be without mods. I do a lot of backroad/forestry camping on dirt roads (often pretty rough) and am tired of the 14" stock wheels.
So if you or anyone knows what size tires I can fit without mods let me know.
Thanks again! |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Tmcd wrote: |
Thanks very much for the info. Gives me basically all the answers I needed. I'd rather do little or no mods if possible. I've spent hours reading through the ultimate wheel posts but didn't see what the max tire size on my rims would be without mods. I do a lot of backroad/forestry camping on dirt roads (often pretty rough) and am tired of the 14" stock wheels.
So if you or anyone knows what size tires I can fit without mods let me know.
Thanks again! |
Smallcar sold similar rims with 215s as a "package"
IMHO, its still not enough room.
I'd be looking at 215/65s as the largest fit if you don't want to do the extra work.
If you are still WBXer powered.. many people recommend closer in dia to the OEM 14s, than not.. 25.5" in dia.
Do your math.. 27ish should be ok and will most likely clear all the way around.
You will still have mud gathering in corners and such.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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215/60-16 is my choice now. Will run the stock 205/70-14 for a bit longer while sorting my fresh Suby install and transmission into my 90 2WD Multivan. I have a .82 4th gear from the stock .85 fyi. Note my rims are 16x7 ET37
Tires are on order from Discount Tire for $537 out the door. 99H XL.
The urge to run bigger tires for lower rpms or whatever reason seems to be VERY strong for lots of us. Whatever your reasons, I want to reiterate that going too big just wastes energy into turning bigger tires. There is NO gain, I am finding for mpg almost no matter what. Bigger tires make for slower off the line. It causes down shifts earlier. Many times you can not pull up a hill. These are MY observations and what I have been noticing.
I hope I am not ranting, but it is what I am noticing as common attributes from reading and getting some experience here and there.
In other words, be a bit conservative with sizing, it seems to make for a better driving experience.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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weatherbill
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2007
Posts: 366
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| I really liked my 16s I used to have, but took them off because I was told they would wear out my baring and other front end things quicker. Vanagon was not made for 16s ~ any truth to that? |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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VW made a syncro 16" factory model. 'nuff said.
Last edited by syncrodoka on Sat May 14, 2011 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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riceye
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 1661
Location: Caledonia, WI
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| weatherbill wrote: |
| I really liked my 16s I used to have, but took them off because I was told they would wear out my baring and other front end things quicker. Vanagon was not made for 16s ~ any truth to that? |
Only true if the diameter of the tire on the 16" wheel is considerably greater than the 14" tire, or the width is greater. Even with those factors, I don't see that the strain would be appreciable. I don't recall reading any posts relating to increased wear on the front end from a (modest) increase in tire size.
*Edit*- The wheel offset would also ply an effect on the situation. See Loogy's epic post about wheel offset and measurement. Very good reading!
Wheel size really means nothing, other than shortening the sidewall of the tire. That's where the increased stability is gained.
_________________
'87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads
There's gonna be some changes made.
“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee
"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| VW made a syncro 16" factory model. 'nuff said. |
They sure did. And there are geometry differences, too! Not just bigger wheels.
One thing I worry about is bearing loading. Like when spacers are added to the rear to increase track. As when wanting to match the front track width. There is so much load back there, I think it not prudent to go too far away from what the factory did. Maybe "wives tales," but it is safe.
Putting bigger wider wheel assemblies on does stress things more, but the Vanagon is pretty robust it seems, but it is to note. I recall reading adding more than 5% to the diameter warrants a look at bigger brakes, for example.
Most of us keep it sane, don't drive all that much and keep our eyes on thngs, so you just don't see much of a problem going to 16s, it seems.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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weatherbill
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2007
Posts: 366
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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sorry, guys, mine is not a synchro
bigger tire size means less rpms, nice for the 2.1 90 hp wimps |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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They use the exact same bearing assemblies on 14" and 16" syncros. The syncro 16 got a longer trailing arm and a different front spindle for the LT brakes but they aren't significantly different mechanically.
Going with bigger tires is a good way to start down the slippery slope of upgrading axles, regearing the tranny, trimming fenders, reshaping the battery box, bigger motor etc....
Lowering RPM's isn't recommended unless you are running a diesel. It affects top speed and MPG in a bad way usually.
Last edited by syncrodoka on Sat May 14, 2011 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| weatherbill wrote: |
| bigger tire size means less rpms, nice for the 2.1 90 hp wimps |
Yes less rpms, but maybe not so nice. There are threads about tires and how too big (like +2 inches) will just kill you to drive your 2.1. BTDT.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not disagreeing with anyone else's experiences or preferences, but I run a 28.4" tall tire (16x7 ET32 effective offset front, ET25 rear effective offset rear) on my 1.9 daily and LOVE them. I refer to the change as going from a four speed to a three speed with overdrive. The ONLY thing that I don't like about the change is that more clutch slippage is necessary for very steep hills, but that's actually very minor and easily managable. I love the fact that I can downshift into third at 65mph when I need to. I suppose that it's not for everybody, but I wouldn't go back to stock diameter tires for anything.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Try doing that with a Westy......
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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ragnarhairybreeks
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2009
Posts: 1890
Location: Sidney B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, the wheel size on the 16" syncro caravelle was 5.50 X 16, and tire size was 205 R 16 (that would be an 80 profile).
Maybe it was a wider wheel, but I do believe the tire size is right. I like the look of that relatively skinny tire, but it seems to be a rare size in north america.
alistair
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| loogy wrote: |
| I'm not disagreeing with anyone else's experiences or preferences, but I run a 28.4" tall tire (16x7 ET32 effective offset front, ET25 rear effective offset rear) on my 1.9 daily and LOVE them. I refer to the change as going from a four speed to a three speed with overdrive. The ONLY thing that I don't like about the change is that more clutch slippage is necessary for very steep hills, but that's actually very minor and easily managable. I love the fact that I can downshift into third at 65mph when I need to. I suppose that it's not for everybody, but I wouldn't go back to stock diameter tires for anything. |
Roger that.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, the wheel size on the 16" syncro caravelle was 5.50 X 16 |
Correct. They also had different R&P ratios to correct for the bigger tires along with modified wheel arches, battery box and trailing arms to make it all fit in there- but you already know that.  |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Correct. They also had different R&P ratios to correct for the bigger tires along with modified wheel arches, battery box and trailing arms to make it all fit in there- but you already know that. |
Thats one sticking point for me.. I'd really like a granny gear to work with the 29s... or a really low 1st. But not much can be done with 1st in the 4 speed.
OEM 4 speed 1st worked OK with 25.5s off pavement for 2WD.. pretty low. But I'm working the clutch way too much now with the 29s.
A granny gear.
That would be the icing on my cake.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
A granny gear.
That would be the icing on my cake. |
All it takes is money  |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| Quote: |
A granny gear.
That would be the icing on my cake. |
All it takes is money |
Syncro transmission with special mount.
Like the commercial and above:
"Money."
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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