| What SUBARU ring and Pinion is best for daily life and strength (longevity) in a Vanagon with an EJ25. Limited freeway use. |
| 4.11 - good all around ratio, about 1000 RPM drop from a stock 4 speed Vanagon. |
|
50% |
[ 1 ] |
| 4 44 - lots of acceleration and towing power, about 600 rpm drop from stock 4 speed Vanagon |
|
50% |
[ 1 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 2 |
|
| Author |
Message |
gtxbullet
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2010
Posts: 249
Location: Pewaukee
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:43 pm Post subject: Vanagon Subarugears 4.11 vs 4.44 |
 |
|
I'm putting my SUBARUGEARS order in this weekend
Hecklers please don't sour a fun experience. The work has too many problems. Don't add to them.
Looking for current owners of the 2 ratios to take a vote on preference.
I'm sold on both with the deciding factor being majority ruling.
So come on Jury, court is in session 
3.90 and 4.86 are out of the question.
Choices are 4.11 or 4.44
For a Hard Top Vanagon with a an 2001 EJ25 and 5mt from a 2001 Subaru Outback.
- Rear cabinets (only the wardrobe and top storage over the bed),
- dual batteries
- Roof rack
- 205/70R15 Tires (may be changing to 215 or 225/70R15)
- 100 pounds of added materials
The guidelines for the final choice:
Quicker than the 3.90 stock subaru gear in the Outback donor
Limited freeway use but 70mph rpm to be as close to 3,000rpm as possible (2950 to 3150)
Good acceleration and driveability for 35 to 55mph driving and minimal sluggishness on hills
A ring and pinion that will last a long time with as close to no chance of failure (lower the number, the thicker and stronger the splines are
Last edited by gtxbullet on Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2948
Location: Issaquah, WA
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Subarugears 4.11 vs 4.44 |
|
|
Hi Steve,
I saw your PM to me about this earlier today, but didn't have a chance to reply yet.
For a tin-top that is often heavily loaded, I would go with the 4.44:1 final drive ratio. The Subaru transmission has a fairly tall first gear, so matching that with a shorter final drive ratio will ensure that you end up with a first gear that can easily get the loaded van moving from a stop.
The only issue arises from your Outback transmission with the short .87 5th gear. If you were to run a 4.44 final drive with that 5th gear and your 26.3" tall tires, you'd be turning 3454 rpms at 70 mph, which I think is higher than what you wanted. If you were to swap in the .78:1 5th gear from the non-Outback transmissions, you'd be at 3097 rpms at 70, which is just about what you were looking for. There's also a .74 5th gear used in the early WRX transmissions. With that you'd be at 2938 rpms at 70.
I did some testing at one time where I loaded up a 4.11:1 van with 300 lbs of bricks to try to simulate the additional weight of a Westy, and I found that the gearing was acceptable, but it felt less than ideal starting off on a steep hill. You can't really go wrong with the 4.44:1 final drive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gtxbullet
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2010
Posts: 249
Location: Pewaukee
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Subarugears 4.11 vs 4.44 |
|
|
| D Clymer wrote: |
Hi Steve,
I saw your PM to me about this earlier today, but didn't have a chance to reply yet.
For a tin-top that is often heavily loaded, I would go with the 4.44:1 final drive ratio. The Subaru transmission has a fairly tall first gear, so matching that with a shorter final drive ratio will ensure that you end up with a first gear that can easily get the loaded van moving from a stop.
The only issue arises from your Outback transmission with the short .87 5th gear. If you were to run a 4.44 final drive with that 5th gear and your 26.3" tall tires, you'd be turning 3454 rpms at 70 mph, which I think is higher than what you wanted. If you were to swap in the .78:1 5th gear from the non-Outback transmissions, you'd be at 3097 rpms at 70, which is just about what you were looking for. There's also a .74 5th gear used in the early WRX transmissions. With that you'd be at 2938 rpms at 70.
I did some testing at one time where I loaded up a 4.11:1 van with 300 lbs of bricks to try to simulate the additional weight of a Westy, and I found that the gearing was acceptable, but it felt less than ideal starting off on a steep hill. You can't really go wrong with the 4.44:1 final drive. |
My plan with the 4.44 would be to get the better 5th gear set.
The 4.11 would be fine without the 5th change in my mind.
Thank you for your knowledge and experience, it is much appreciated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2948
Location: Issaquah, WA
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon Subarugears 4.11 vs 4.44 |
|
|
| gtxbullet wrote: |
| D Clymer wrote: |
Hi Steve,
I saw your PM to me about this earlier today, but didn't have a chance to reply yet.
For a tin-top that is often heavily loaded, I would go with the 4.44:1 final drive ratio. The Subaru transmission has a fairly tall first gear, so matching that with a shorter final drive ratio will ensure that you end up with a first gear that can easily get the loaded van moving from a stop.
The only issue arises from your Outback transmission with the short .87 5th gear. If you were to run a 4.44 final drive with that 5th gear and your 26.3" tall tires, you'd be turning 3454 rpms at 70 mph, which I think is higher than what you wanted. If you were to swap in the .78:1 5th gear from the non-Outback transmissions, you'd be at 3097 rpms at 70, which is just about what you were looking for. There's also a .74 5th gear used in the early WRX transmissions. With that you'd be at 2938 rpms at 70.
I did some testing at one time where I loaded up a 4.11:1 van with 300 lbs of bricks to try to simulate the additional weight of a Westy, and I found that the gearing was acceptable, but it felt less than ideal starting off on a steep hill. You can't really go wrong with the 4.44:1 final drive. |
My plan with the 4.44 would be to get the better 5th gear set.
The 4.11 would be fine without the 5th change in my mind.
Thank you for your knowledge and experience, it is much appreciated. |
Yup, my pleasure. Just be careful with the 4.11 choice due to the tall first gear potential I mentioned. One thing you can't quantify from looking at gear ratio calculators is how a resulting first gear combination will feel pulling away from a stop - especially if it's on a hill. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 14181
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon Subarugears 4.11 vs 4.44 |
|
|
I have a 4.14 with a .77 4th. Initially it ended up being geared to tall for the stock TDI engine. It was fine in Florida, but out west could not pull 4th on highway uphill grinds. Oops. Max torque is around 150 and Hp is around 110 for comparison to your Subaru engine.
I ended up increasing HP and Torque to compensate for the too tall gearing. I'm in agreement with Dave on his recommendation. I can cruise about 70 mph at around 3000 rpm with the above setup and available power.
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro.
In Car https://youtu.be/5hbfdUJR88Q |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
