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How to tighten the latch on the vent/wing window? Spinning..
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timichango
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: How to tighten the latch on the vent/wing window? Spinning.. Reply with quote

Sooo... our vent wing window has developed a weird affliction, and now spins past the locked/unlocked positions at 0 deg. and 90deg. The part that attaches the latch to the window spins freely in the glass, rather than remaining fixed.

How do I fix this? I can't find it in the Bentley (after banging my head against the wall trying to find it / figure it out for an hour) and don't fancy making things worse with misguided exploratory application of tools...

Thanks!!

T

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timichango
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buuuuuuump Smile
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tpinthepack
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I don't know the answer, but I would start by removing the roll pin on the latch, and pull apart to explore. How hard can it be. Likely a cast or pot metal stop of a sort is damaged or broke etc.
Then, hit the classifieds for used parts. Just my opinion. And of course post a little KB article for us here to help others later on.
Thanks
Tony
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not disaasembly the Vanagon window latch but most often there is a cast rotation limiter. As mentioned it's only weak "pot" metal and can easily be broken.

As mentioned,
Knock out the pin, catch the pieces and see what you've got.

Take photos to help all of us who will someday follow after you.

Odds are high you will need to source a new glass frame, probably easier to get as a used unit. I wouldn't think this would be hard to come by.

Not hard at all! Listed and ready to ship! Even affordable!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1574336

Dave
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timichango
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh—if we weren't leaving for a 4-month trip in 48 hours, I'd be down with the risk of having a non-functioning window latch, and getting into exploratory surgery.

Since we're imminently leaving, though, I'm going to hold out for a step-by-step from someone who's tackled this (fingers crossed!) ... failing that, I'll leave it alone for the time being.

"Partially working" seems better than "not working at all" while we're on the road!
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DubNuts
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I found the problem to be with these latches is that the Latch Mounting Bolt turns out of position over years of use causing the Latch not to be able to close.

The outside of the Latch Bolt has a Cap cover over it.

Simply cautiously remove the cover and your see one of those butterfly head screws. Meaning the ones that can only be turned one direction and not removable.

What I normally do is gently but firmly grasp the head of that Bolt on the outside of the Vent window with a pair of decent pliers and turn it back Counter Clockwise about a 1\4 turn..

This should put your Latch back to a working closing position..

Removing the tiny drift pin is a pain in the Butt and I have found that it got me no place other then frustrated. So don't go there unless you really need to replace your closing latch which is seldom the problem. Its usually the shaft that moves position not a bad Latch.

Good Luck and Happy Safe Travels to you
Very Happy
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timichango
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey DubNuts, thanks for the explanation!

Ours isn't just out of position—it's rotating freely 360 degrees. And by that I mean that the lockup on the latch works fine (I think the mechanism is a-ok), but the WHOLE assembly is rotating in the glass (the inner latch and the part on the outside of the window rotate as one).

So what I'm wondering is:

1. is the hole in the window a special shape, and is there some detent in the pin that goes through it that prevents rotation normally?

**or**

2. is the whole thing normally just held in place by clamping force/friction? Do I just need to tighten that "butterfly" bolt to re-establish adequate clamping force to prevent rotation?

Thanks!


DubNuts wrote:
What I found the problem to be with these latches is that the Latch Mounting Bolt turns out of position over years of use causing the Latch not to be able to close.

The outside of the Latch Bolt has a Cap cover over it.

Simply cautiously remove the cover and your see one of those butterfly head screws. Meaning the ones that can only be turned one direction and not removable.

What I normally do is gently but firmly grasp the head of that Bolt on the outside of the Vent window with a pair of decent pliers and turn it back Counter Clockwise about a 1\4 turn..

This should put your Latch back to a working closing position..

Removing the tiny drift pin is a pain in the Butt and I have found that it got me no place other then frustrated. So don't go there unless you really need to replace your closing latch which is seldom the problem. Its usually the shaft that moves position not a bad Latch.

Good Luck and Happy Safe Travels to you
Very Happy

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timichango
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Answering my own question here: friction! Got the cap off of the outer bolt head, and used vice grips to stabilize it while using the latch as a wrench to tighten the whole assembly. Worked a charm—it's solid again.

Muchas graçias!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timichango wrote:
Answering my own question here: friction! Got the cap off of the outer bolt head, and used vice grips to stabilize it while using the latch as a wrench to tighten the whole assembly. Worked a charm—it's solid again.

Muchas graçias!


And as you were doing this you of course took photos and posted them here so that we all are smarter....... Right?

Glad you got it fixed!

Dave
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kalispell365
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did this repair thanks to this thread. A couple of hints:

1) Use a very stiff, thin paint or gasket scraper with a beveled edge and get it under the cap. Tap it a couple of times and the cap will pop off without any damage, just be sure the scraper edge is behind the cap!
2) To tighten the fitting, use a GOOD quality tight adjustable wrench and tighten it around the very outer edge where the four little tabs which hold the cap on are...then you can rotate the wrench until it contacts two of the opposing tabs mentioned earlier. Then, gently twist back and forth the latch while applying pressure to the wrench and it will tighten amazingly tight. Just be sure and keep the wrench adjusted as tight and often as possible to avoid damaging the tabs you are bracing the wrench against. If done correctly, you wont damage or mark up any of the retainer or little tabs.

3) to install the cap, take a small c-clamp and a small block of wood. Clamp the wood over the cap on the one side and on top of the latch on the other side once you have the cap partially installed and gently tighten the clamp until the cap pops on. Simple!
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timichango
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the relevant picture.

1. used channel lock pliers to just yank the cap off (looks like it's not the first time someone's done that, as there's evidence of prior pliers).

2. The bolt has a security face which presumably needs some kind of split-driver to engage. Also, around the outer circumference, it's round but has 4 tabs sticking out that engage with the cosmetic cap. I used vice grips on the radiused portion of the outer circumference, taking care not to mash down the tabs.

3. Held the latch in the latched position, and rotated bolt head clockwise with the vice grips to tighten

4. applied tri-flow to the rotating portion of the latch (taking care not to get it between the bolt and windowglass) to reduce latch friction, and hopefully offset future loosenings.

5. Reattached cap by getting one side over one of the protruding tabs, and using thumb pressure to slowly mash it back over the other tabs. Cap is domed sheetmetal with straight sides, bent slightly inward, so you can use the inherent spring in the cap to buy yourself clearance to get it back over the tabs, and the end result is a nice snug fit. Not going anywhere.

Sometime in the future when I'm repainting other fixtures, I'll likely pull the caps from both sides and strip/paint them with krylon.


If the spinning happens again, I'll try loosening it slightly, laying in some flowable silicone to increase the friction, and tightening back up. Maybe a daub of blue loctite for good measure on the bolt threads too.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




djkeev wrote:
timichango wrote:
Answering my own question here: friction! Got the cap off of the outer bolt head, and used vice grips to stabilize it while using the latch as a wrench to tighten the whole assembly. Worked a charm—it's solid again.

Muchas graçias!


And as you were doing this you of course took photos and posted them here so that we all are smarter....... Right?

Glad you got it fixed!

Dave
[img][/img]
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DubNuts
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...
Hey Glade I could Help..

You did great. Laughing

BTW fartgot to mention that you can loosen the screw enough with the pliers or vice grips to let a drop of Super glue type sealer behind the head then twist closed and set into position. That should keep her firmly set in position for many more decades..

Happy Travels 2 You..
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reviving this thread because I recently did the same and took some pics.

Slightly different issue: my latch wouldn't close all the way. This is as far as it would go in the closed direction:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Did the rest of this at night so apologies for the quality of the pics. I used vise grips to get the cap off:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's what it looks like underneath. It's a weird security bolt with a split head and the four tabs timichango mentioned. They're offset 90 degrees from each other; you can see two of mine at approx at 45 and -45 in this pic (the others are there, just obscured by rust):
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can grab the bolt (between the tabs) with vise grips and rotate it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I sprayed it with penetrant, rotated it about 1/8 turn to the left, and the latch moved with it into the position I wanted it. Then to make sure it was tight, I held the latch in place with one hand and tightened the bolt with the other. If it had been way loose I might have preapplied some sort of friction compound as suggested above.

Getting the cap back on was easier than others found it: I just opened the wing window and pushed "in" on the cap with one thumb as I pushed "out" on the inside of the window with the other, and it popped right back into place.

Hope this helps!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the same...

I add a thin rubber washer under the bolt to eliminate a whistling noise
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: How to tighten the latch on the vent/wing window? Spinning.. Reply with quote

I am working on the Carrot Vent windows and took this picture to further illustrate the function of the latch assembly specifically how it mounts to the glass. The black cover for the tamper proof bolt is available through VW classic parts and at buslab in North America.

I’m cleaning out the splines and lubing the lever latch assembly prior to reinstallation. It appears that the orientation of the assembly on the glass
is secured solely by the clamping force of the anti tamper nut against the glass. I made a tool to engage the nut so that I can tighten it in a controlled manner when I re-assemble. I’m also thinking of adding sealant to the surfaces of the splined female “grommet” where it contacts the glass and the surface of the tamper proof bolt to both stick to the glass better and improve water proofness.



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: How to tighten the latch on the vent/wing window? Spinning.. Reply with quote

There is a small piece of lead that expands to an interference fit with the hole in the glass when everything is tightened. A long time ago I bought one of the lead inserts along with a new vent wing glass from VW.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: How to tighten the latch on the vent/wing window? Spinning.. Reply with quote

Thanks for that info, I can see what I think are new VW replacements at Van Cafe.
https://www.vancafe.com/281837750-p/281837750.htm

They look a little different than what I have, but I will order a set to have on hand for reassembly.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: How to tighten the latch on the vent/wing window? Spinning.. Reply with quote

The Carrot wrote:
I made a tool to engage the nut so that I can tighten it in a controlled manner when I re-assemble.


Nice job on the tool for resourcefulness and ingenuity!

Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: How to tighten the latch on the vent/wing window? Spinning.. Reply with quote

Further research indicates that the seals through the glass are in fact a two part assembly; a malleable metal (lead) ring that expands against the circumference of the hole where the latch and pivot fasteners pass through the glass plus a separate plastic seal against the flat surface of the glass.
Lead Sealing “pressure ring” part # 281837750, the plastic seal lightly snaps onto the pressure ring, part # 281837745

In the image below; 3 used seal assemblies with a single homemade 1 piece rubber seal to their left.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I can get new parts but they are a month out because #shutdown so I thought up an alternate way of sealing these holes. 7mm fuel line cut to 4.00 mm length can be inserted into the glass and is supple enough to accept the conical Male protrusion of the latch and pivot hardware. (you can see that protrusion in my image above in a prior post)

The fuel line clamp on the hose allows for a reasonably accurate measurement and acts as a cutting guide. The rubber is a tight circumferential seal against the glass and since it fits the hole in a slightly compressed manner, the inside diameter of the hose is constricted such that the M5 fastener threads are tightly gripped by the rubber. I am confident that these custom seals are a workmanlike alternative to the proprietary parts and will run these this season. (Note that the custom rubber seal needs to be coaxed into place using a pocket screwdriver, I also gave the circumference and both faces a smear of silicone grease.)

The last niggling detail on these vent windows is the alignment of the top corner of the glass where it just touches the vertical part of the vent window frame.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Other posts mention loosening the glass fasteners and preloading the glass in a forward direction and having some success. I am going to look at the attachment point where the upper pivot bracket is riveted to the leading edge of the window frame. I intend to drill those rivets out in order to facilitate easier removal/installation of new vent window seals (hat tip to samba member 16cvs) and will replace the rivets with M3 machine screws, washers and nyloc nuts, yes there is clearance in the frame. I will slightly enlarge the holes in the frame and that will allow for some fore-aft adjustment of the upper pivot mount. The alignment process is of course performed while the entire vent window assembly is out of the Van, so I can test and verify and ensure that those little M3 fasteners are cranked down tightly...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It’s a lot of fussing around, but the Vent windows are one of the features that I really enjoy and Now that I have them on the bench they Can be made “better than new”
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