Author |
Message |
megamau Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2015 Posts: 15
|
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
I'm trying to find the best deal on a new dual circuit cylinder and conversion kit, and I only need to understand a little detail.
I sometimes find in some sites that they say a specific cylinder is with servo, and some other cylinders are without.
What is the difference? Can I buy a cylinder made for servo braking systems and use it without a servo? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bruce Amacker Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007 Posts: 1786 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24735 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
megamau wrote: |
What is the difference? Can I buy a cylinder made for servo braking systems and use it without a servo? |
Read up on page one..... _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ozark23 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 156 Location: Oklahoma
|
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Eric&Barb wrote: |
Are you sure it is the grommet/seal?
Have you checked that the piston stop bolt under the reservoir is tight? |
So this probably makes me look dumb, at this point I no longer care....piston stop bolt? Where is that? The bolt on the pushrod? My reservoir pops into the grommets....so I'm confused?
thanks for your help! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24735 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
ozark23 wrote: |
So this probably makes me look dumb, at this point I no longer care....piston stop bolt? Where is that? The bolt on the pushrod? My reservoir pops into the grommets....so I'm confused?
thanks for your help! |
No problem!
Check out page three for the second and third images there. Bolt head is between reservoir ports/grommets. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3898 Location: Seattle, WA
|
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Eric&Barb wrote: |
Bolt head is between reservoir ports/grommets. |
Yes, if there is one. Some m/c makes (Varga for instance) do not have stop bolts. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ozark23 Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002 Posts: 156 Location: Oklahoma
|
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Yes. Just so others will know when doing this, Varga does not have stop bolt.
Mine is leaking from front grommet/to reservoir after 3 grommets.
Guess I'll pull it off and see if the master has a nick/groove/defect.
thanks for the help folks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
|
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
mocking up mine, to anticipate any problem using a 67 only ATE MC. I've got the impression that it will be enough by shortening the rod 3-4 mm..lets see.
_________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mr white Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2005 Posts: 1193 Location: beautiful Oregon & Mohave County, AZ
|
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
What master cylinder is a good choice to replace a stock dual circuit master cylinder on a 67 bus? The spacer is for earlier than 67? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24735 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
mr white wrote: |
What master cylinder is a good choice to replace a stock dual circuit master cylinder on a 67 bus? The spacer is for earlier than 67? |
Go to page one of this very thread and start reading up! _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dubskii Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2010 Posts: 385 Location: So Cal
|
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Picked up a 67 DCMC from Old Speed recently. I would like to spray paint it with black enamel (covering up the orifices first of course) to prevent any surface rust from forming. Is this advisable? _________________ 69 Sunroof Deluxe - Montana Red/Cloud White (Sold)
57 Kombi - Dove Blue http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=648240
WTB Early Dove Blue Bus Driver's Side Door
WTB Joe Heishman VW Arlington, VA License Plate Frame or Other Memorabilia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24735 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Dubskii wrote: |
Picked up a 67 DCMC from Old Speed recently. I would like to spray paint it with black enamel (covering up the orifices first of course) to prevent any surface rust from forming. Is this advisable? |
That will work fine, but you will want to use a good primer like a high content zinc primer before painting. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nvloc Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2014 Posts: 11 Location: North Vancouver
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
So I did this conversion last year following the aicooledtech.com link.
It's a 65 single cab with Porsche 914 calipers up front and stock drums in the rear.
Picked up a bay window master, Volvo reservoir, made a spacer. Hooked up both front brake lines to the ports toward the back of the vehicle, the single rear brake line hooked up to the port nearest the front, the sender in the 4th port.
Finally drove it yesterday and the brakes are terrible, feels like I'm dragging the rear brakes and have no power up front.
With discs in the front am I missing something? Will I need a Proportioning valve on the rear to make this work?
EDIT: disregard. I rechecked the routing of the brake lines and realized I had one of the front lines and the rear brake line reversed, don't do that! Brakes are working muuuch better |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bergfan Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2007 Posts: 151 Location: NewZealand
|
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
May have missed a post but cant see any mention of brake servo/booster being used in any of these conversions. i take it its fine without one ? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kiwinw Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2014 Posts: 58 Location: Portland, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:19 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Hoping someone can confirm next steps to get this back into the bus (came off a 67 - but it's obviously not original). Its a bug reservoir (looked up the number on the plastic) and although the holes line up, I am not sure this will work as there does not seem to be room for grommets to complete the seal? So do I need to buy a different fluid reservoir (Rabbit or 67 bus), or are there grommets available for this? Its a tight fit, but it had a leak at the connections so I took it off to clean it up and replace the grommets. It had some aged hard type material where the grommets would be - almost like a piece tubing had been stretched over (PO installed). Let me know if this works (new grommets or other trick, or if I just need to buy a new reservoir or other adaptors. Links would be helpful.
_________________ I need a long camper side WINDOW for a 66 Riviera - please let me know if you have one!
1975 Westfalia
1967 Westfalia
1966 Riviera
1966 Deluxe |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24735 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Kiwinw wrote: |
So do I need to buy a different fluid reservoir (Rabbit or 67 bus), or are there grommets available for this? |
Unless you are wanting to spend time researching and $$ buying up seals to test if they will work... Better to just get one of the other reservoirs that are known to fit with the stock MC seals. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kiwinw Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2014 Posts: 58 Location: Portland, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Eric&Barb wrote: |
Kiwinw wrote: |
So do I need to buy a different fluid reservoir (Rabbit or 67 bus), or are there grommets available for this? |
Unless you are wanting to spend time researching and $$ buying up seals to test if they will work... Better to just get one of the other reservoirs that are known to fit with the stock MC seals. |
OK, but thats where I am confused also. Everyone quotes a rabbit reservoir - but they seem difficult to find? I did find this for a 67 year reservoir and an ok price, but no photos of the bottom to determine the nipple size.
http://www.eisparts.com/211611301E.html _________________ I need a long camper side WINDOW for a 66 Riviera - please let me know if you have one!
1975 Westfalia
1967 Westfalia
1966 Riviera
1966 Deluxe |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24735 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
That is a Rabbit reservoir. Since it is supposed to fit 1967 bus it will fit the 1971-79 MC. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Homeresque Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2013 Posts: 90 Location: Hippy-Dippy Fruitcake Land
|
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
olliehank47 wrote: |
ozark23 wrote: |
Ok, I'm done beating my head against the wall.
Followed this thread, switched my 65 split to dual master with 71-79 bay master, spacer and reservoir from wolfgang....worked great for 6 weeks, then it started weeping fluid out of the front rubber grommet on the master/reservoir. So I replaced the grommets...worked for a few days, then started weeping again. I have done this 3 times now-still weeping fluid. I swapped reservoirs (thought maybe it was the problem), nope same thing, if the bus sits for a few days, it starts leaking/weeping fluid out again.
very annoying. If you have ideas/thoughts or have dealt with this same issue let me know and thanks! |
Is the leak only from the front grommet, as you posted? If so, possibly the port for the grommet is somehow compromised--scored or nicked. You may have to remove the MC and inspect the port carefully and possibly polish the opening.
You said the leak will occur if the bus sits for a few days, correct? So the leak will occur even if the MC is never pressurized, correct? If so, that means gravity alone will cause a leak which I can only see happening if the seal between the metal of the port and the grommet is compromised.
One final thought. Bay MC's also used remote reservoirs and the ports were used to fit a barb fitting for the filler tubes. Perhaps the grommet used for those fittings is a different configuration and your MC is made for the later bay buses. Just a guess as I'm not familiar with the bay set up. |
Off-topic but still on-topic...I have the same problem, new ATE late bay MC leaking at the grommets. For the first 5-6 months there was no leak but then last fall, about when temps got cooler, it started leaking. In an earlier post I asked about the issue of the MC having grommets already installed and the new reservoir coming with new grommets loose, and that they had a different part #. Now what is said about the original configuration of the reservoir being mounted remotely makes me think that the grommets installed in the MC should be switched out for the grommets that come with the new reservoir, or else this happens.
The situation now is I don't run the splashpan installed because it leaks so much I keep a catchpan on the floor, and crawl underneath to wipe everything clean and check fluid level every time I want to take the car out. I was unimpressed from the start with the VW design change going from having the reservoir mounted securely on the MC to mounting it with the wigglely (ie. cheaper) rubber grommets, and now my feeling is that if I'm going to the trouble of breaking open the system to change the grommets which means having to re-bleed the system (which I hate doing about as much as anything), then fuck it...I'm buying a new TRW/Varga MC (single circuit) with securely mounted reservoir. So my question is...I have discs in front, does the single circuit MC have one internal residual valve for all three ports meaning you cant isolate and remove for just the front brake lines? If so, then I guess I'll work on plan B. _________________ "Do you see what happens Larry?!?!" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24735 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Circuit Master Cylinder conversion |
|
|
Single circuit will most likely not move enough fluid to work the discs.
Get new grommets and fix the dual circuit problem. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|