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Joesplace
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2006
Posts: 313
Location: Brookings, Oregon
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79SuperVert
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002
Posts: 9758
Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
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 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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"Three wheel vehicles have been exotic up until now."
I don't think so:
Still, the GX3 looks like a lot of fun to drive. |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 1429
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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It would be easy enough to build one out of an old Rabbit or a Golf for a lot less than $17k.
I've had an idea like that in the back of my head... the anti-trike. Wannabes are always askin' me if I'd build them a trike. A conventional trike combines the worst of a motorcycle with the worst of a car.
Although VW claims their idea is unique it's roughly similar to an early Morgan.
Handling wise it would be like a fork lift. Three wheels are o.k. if you don't overcook the corners. |
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drscope
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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A fellow here has a T-rex and it definitely looks like fun.
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Herby
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2005
Posts: 742
Location: LALA Land
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know if this is the right forum to be talking about new VW concepts.
It was originally to be sold only in California and if it went well with consumers, it would have been sold on a larger scale. Unfortunately, it supposedly didn't pass U.S. crash protection laws and was scrapped. But it probably has more to do with VW politics and this being a project under former VW chairman Wolfgang Bernhard who liked starting concepts like these. This is one of those things that will never happen.
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Herby wrote: |
Don't know if this is the right forum to be talking about new VW concepts.
It was originally to be sold only in California and if it went well with consumers, it would have been sold on a larger scale. Unfortunately, it supposedly didn't pass U.S. crash protection laws and was scrapped. But it probably has more to do with VW politics and this being a project under former VW chairman Wolfgang Bernhard who liked starting concepts like these. This is one of those things that will never happen. |
I don't think that crash protection laws were an issue since, as a 3-wheeler, it is considered a motorcycle.
I think that the engineering department had their fun and then the bean-counters and lawyers said "that's enough boys!" and killed it. |
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crossbones
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2007
Posts: 70
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I always wondered why someone didn't combine the drive train of a motorcycle with the four wheel platform of a car to make a 1 or 2 person car strictly for driving. A car you could use to go back and forth to work, not something to pick up the kids or go to the grocery store with. It would be small and light as well as cheap to produce and economical when it comes to gas mileage. You could have a sporty model with a little beefier engine than normal. I'm sure one could be made safe enough for US roads if they tried hard enough.
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58Dub
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Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 1429
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| crossbones wrote: |
| I always wondered why someone didn't combine the drivetrain of a motorcycle with the four wheel platform of a car to make a 1 or 2 person car strictly for driving. |
I can think of several reasons right off the top of my head.
Bikes don't have reverse. That's a challenge to overcome when adapting a bike motor to a car.
Most bikes are chain drive. Legend cars and Mini Sprints get around this by welding a driveshaft adapter to the countershaft sprocket. Still, the shift linkage and clutch linkage are a compromise at best when adapted to four wheels.
The good news: Bikes make big horsepower from small engines, 85 hp from 600cc and 130hp from 1000cc are available right off the showroom floor with no mods. Consider 100hp per liter... conservative output for a bike. Your old '67 1500 would put out 150 horsepower if it was capable of those output levels. Now try to get 150hp from an old 1500, you'll begin to understand that our beloved VW is a pretty archaic design.
The bad news: Bikes are usually tuned for performance not economy. 40mpg from a sportbike is about normal, maybe 50mpg from an old technology 600 but don't ride it hard! Ride hard and the feul mileage drops right off. When you consider a 450 pound bike with a 180 pound rider gettin' 40mpg the numbers don't look so good.
The challenge is to get a small engine to pull more weight than is really ideal, the other part of the equation is to get the overall weight of the vehicle down to something reasonable. Just for the sake of science try loading yourself and a nice light say 110 pound chick on a 600cc sportbike. You may find that your performance is less than zippy and your fuel mileage ain't all the great. Having four wheels adds even more weight.
Oh yeah. Then try to do small and light then meet DOT and EPA standards. |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
| crossbones wrote: |
| I always wondered why someone didn't combine the drivetrain of a motorcycle with the four wheel platform of a car to make a 1 or 2 person car strictly for driving. |
The good news: Bikes make big horsepower from small engines, 85 hp from 600cc and 130hp from 1000cc are available right off the showroom floor with no mods.
The bad news: Bikes are usually tuned for performance not economy. |
The really bad news is that a motorcycle engine only makes that big power at astronomical RPM. If you try to pull that power, or even a significant fraction of it continuously your engine life is measured in minutes. |
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Jengel451
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Greenacres, WA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Actually 1000 cc bikes are putting out 170hp very reliably, and have power all the way down to the RPM range, very grunty down low.
As far as chain drive etc, easy to overcome. And bikes have had reverse for many years now, only a few of them, but they have em.
The Can-Am rig looks like a hoot to ride.
BTW, this is CRAZY off topic, I now return you to your regularly scheduled SAMBA channel.
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jengel451 wrote: |
| Actually 1000 cc bikes are putting out 170hp very reliably, and have power all the way down to the RPM range, very grunty down low. |
Grunty, but you're not going to get 170HP at 4000RPM. Here's the horsepower curves for a couple of big sportbikes:
Note that you don't get anything until 3000RPM. At 4000RPM you get 30-40HP, less than a stock 1600DP VW engine. Even this low horsepower is sufficient at cruising speed for a motorcycle. It isn't suitable for a larger vehicle, though.
There's no free lunch. Street bikes have remarkable engines designed for lightweight vehicles. The T-rex gets away with its motorcycle drivetrain because it weighs 900 pounds. Even at that, when you look at the video on the T-rex site you see drivers having to feather the clutch and do considerable revving to get the vehicle underway. The powerband makes it a difficult vehicle to drive.
(not that I would be disappointed if my wife bought me one for my mid-life crisis!) 
The VW prototype was cool, but it wasn't more than an attention-getter at car shows. I have a lot more respect for people who actually put their 3-wheeler on the road. |
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Rome
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Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9651
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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2 people in the GX3 have as much shoulder room as in a Beetle! If alone, those SoCal canyon roads would be a total blast for cornering ability. Low center of gravity plus long wheelbase would make a stable machine.
Say, does anybody remember about 20 years ago (or more) when one of the "popular science"- type magazines had plans to make your own cheap 3-wheeler? Start with a wrecked motorcyle, weld a "Y"-shaped metal subframe to the front of the bike's frame, then bolt on a Beetle front axle? The rider's legs went OVER the Beetle's axle. Shifter was a type of modification of the bike, like a sequential lever. |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Rome wrote: |
Say, does anybody remember about 20 years ago (or more) when one of the "popular science"- type magazines had plans to make your own cheap 3-wheeler? Start with a wrecked motorcyle, weld a "Y"-shaped metal subframe to the front of the bike's frame, then bolt on a Beetle front axle? The rider's legs went OVER the Beetle's axle. Shifter was a type of modification of the bike, like a sequential lever. |
Ah, yes, the Tri-Magnum, designed by R. Q. Riley.
A tubular front frame with VW front beam, with a body made with foam/fiberglass moldless methods. Very economical if you could find a bike with frame damage to use as a power package.
http://www.rqriley.com/tri-mag.html
This could be quite a screamer with a modern superbike and careful attention to weight. |
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