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Tiico? Vanaru? GEX Rebuild? Which one is best for us?
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mountainmanak1
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Bostig Zetec Reply with quote

I installed a Zetec with the Bostig kit in my 85 Westy. I love it. I drove it from virginia to Wisconsin the day I completed the install. My test drive was completed at the first rest stop 200 miles down the road Laughing . The kit was easy to understand and put together. Any difficulties I had were self induced. My Vanagon has plenty of power now. I love people when they pull up next to me at a stop light and give me the "What is that old ugly thing" look. Then when it turns green I beat them off the line and laugh my behind off. My 2.1 barely made it through the mountains in Virginia.It Crested the pass at 23 MPH with the red light flashing like a strobe at me. My foot was to the floor for 5 minutes. How it didn't pop the engine I have no idea. My Bostig made it through the pass at 48 MPH and my foot wasn't to the floor. I had plenty of power to pass Semi's on my way up. I was in dis-belief. I am extremely pleased with my desicion to go with the Bostig kit. No more leaking oil in my driveway or it leaking on my exhaust like it used to. My Westy is not a daily driver, but I do get it out once a week to show it off and take my family for a cruise. Stress free driving makes my Vanagon enjoyable. I highly recommend the Bostig kit to anyone thinking about doing a conversion. If you go this route get the programmable ECU and code uploader/scanner. much easier than my choice to use my laptop.
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crukab
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Boston Bob in my '86Doka- ('04 install) and a Tilco in the '91 Vanagon Carat/Wlfs. ('06 install) Very different rides, we went with the Tilco because we could afford a bigger engine, wanted to stay VW & I know & trust Jon Gagnon @ Foreign Auto inc. in Harpswell Maine, they did a nice clean pro install.
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ChesterKV
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weatherbill wrote:
Well I think I'm gonna go with the EJ22 or the EJ25.

I think a Subaru engine will out last a ford zetec engine.


I wonder if the 2.5 guzzles much more gas than the 2.2?


Contact John at http://www.vanaru.com/index.htm. He's pretty helpful and they deal mostly with EJ25s and a few EJ22s. He can also help clarify the EJ22E designation.

Let us know what you end up doing......
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weatherbill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think I'm gonna go with the EJ22 or the EJ25.

I think a Subaru engine will out last a ford zetec engine.


I wonder if the 2.5 guzzles much more gas than the 2.2?
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vwlovr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weatherbill wrote:

The Zetec...I'll have to look that one up....what do they come out of???


comes out of a ford focus and contour, and other ford models both here and in europe. there are several variations of the zetec. check out bostig for more info.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B9_FeHKlXE
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ChesterKV
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weatherbill wrote:
Thanx for your replies!

Seems to me the subi 2.5 would be the way to go, since I do like more power. The only things is, would'nt it get less gas milage than the Subi 2.2 ??

I think I'm gonna spend the extra cash and have someone else do the work becasue I don't know what I'm doing.

The Zetec...I'll have to look that one up....what do they come out of???

Also looked into getting a new subi 2.2 from Oreilly's auto parts.
They had the non turbo 2.2, the EJ22E 16 valve
I take it, there are different kinds of EJ22's out there. What's the "E" for?
Someone also told me that the engines are different for an automatic and manual tranie on the EJ22
can anyone clarify these things? What do i need for my vanagon with manual tranie??? or does it make a difference???


I'm not exactly sure but I think EJ22(E) refers to the 2nd generation OBDII EJ22 engine offered from 1995 on. OBDII is the current engine diagnostic system that all car manufacturers are currently using. The older EJ22 is an OBDI (All the EJ22s are 16-valve by the way) system from 1990 to 1994 with less sensors and slightly more basic ECU. As far as the OBDI EJ22 motors are concerned, regardless of whether it's an automatic or manual, the engines are the same. Only the wiring harness is somewhat different including an automatic transmission computer (which is discarded) for the automatic.
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1984 Wolfsburg 7-passenger stock sunroof
1992 Subaru Legacy EJ22 boxer motor installed.... van is now sold.... currently playing with a 1987 Toyota MR2 with 1.6 liter twin-cam motor. Better than the Subaru boxers....... I'm impressed. Well, okay, in an "apples and oranges" kind of way. Smile
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weatherbill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-391056499...;plindex=0

now this is some power!
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weatherbill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanx for your replies!

Seems to me the subi 2.5 would be the way to go, since I do like more power. The only things is, would'nt it get less gas milage than the Subi 2.2 ??

I think I'm gonna spend the extra cash and have someone else do the work becasue I don't know what I'm doing.

The Zetec...I'll have to look that one up....what do they come out of???

Also looked into getting a new subi 2.2 from Oreilly's auto parts.
They had the non turbo 2.2, the EJ22E 16 valve
I take it, there are different kinds of EJ22's out there. What's the "E" for?
Someone also told me that the engines are different for an automatic and manual tranie on the EJ22
can anyone clarify these things? What do i need for my vanagon with manual tranie??? or does it make a difference???
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RichBenn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a major factor is whether one is doing their own work or not. For me, I got a donor car for $100 (well, plus trailer to tow). I yanked the harness and the entire top end. Since it had 200K miles, and upon examination, would have required some rebuild work, I've elected to get a JDM engine. Either the JDM or rebuilding the existing engine will cost me around $650. Either way I will have a relatively new engine.
The JDM is alot less work, however, and they (Japanese Domestic Market engines) typically have less than 40K miles.

The support system for Subaru engine DIY installs is great! Lot's of diagrams, user help, parts vendors, etc. Now if I had to pay for all the labor, it'd be ALOT! Way more than the $2K+ range I'll be in. Options when you are spending in the neighborhood of $7K for turnkey are different than DIY and I would certainly consider them. Or maybe I'd just buy a rebuilt vanagon engine.
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vwlovr
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey freakness, no worries, i totally understand. like i said, to each his own for sure. if had time i would have consider and equally challenging and economical (or over the top dudeness) conversion as well. your conversion thread as been a good read, i enjoy any motor conversions really.

i liked the zetec because it just looks like a newer motor, it's so clean with no excess hoses running everywhere. the inline orientation provides tons room to reach into the engine bay, and the sparkplugs on top will be very nice when the time comes around. stainless exhaust and cradle are top notch and look really nice in the van, and i know they will last me a long time.
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ChesterKV
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwlovr wrote:


i mean look at freakness's project, he paid like $400 for a subi car to pull the motor out of that had like 180k, that he has done a considerable amount of work on because it's an old motor, with 180k miles on it.


I agree actually but it's important to understand my outlook on this process. For $ 400.00 I bought my first "project". I got the wiring harness with ECU, a/c compressor, power steering pump, coilpack, and a high-mileage engine that is still running at full compression (190 p.s.i. average). I actually consider the motor the "bonus". Just buying a wiring harness on it's own pre-modified can run $ 250.00 easy. If this motor lasts 10,000 miles or 50,000 miles it makes no difference to me; I'm taking a crash course in Subaru/Vanagon conversions so this engine is the guinea pig. All of the required maintenance from fixing a leaking oil pump to installing a new timing belt are teaching me about the EJ22 as a system and to a certain extent the EJ25 and EJ33 (SVX) motors.

For my next conversion in another van I'll try out the SVX 3.3. for no other reason than why not? However, for my next 2.2 conversion, IF I do one, I'll happily and preferably install a rebuilt engine with a year warranty and expect 150,000 or more miles from it. The amount of time saved in installing a rebuilt motor will be worth it to me since I kinda know what I'm doing now.........kinda



.
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1984 Wolfsburg 7-passenger stock sunroof
1992 Subaru Legacy EJ22 boxer motor installed.... van is now sold.... currently playing with a 1987 Toyota MR2 with 1.6 liter twin-cam motor. Better than the Subaru boxers....... I'm impressed. Well, okay, in an "apples and oranges" kind of way. Smile
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vwlovr
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skaaudivw wrote:
vwlovr how long did your Zetec install take. my guess the hardest part is taking out the WBX and related items.


it took about three weeks, but i did the turnkey. nothing was really hard about it. time consuming bits were just fixing existing issues and waiting for various non-zetec related parts. i also painted my engine bay so that took some time to clean, prep, and paint. actually installing the zetec was easy.

it took me like half a day to pull the wbx, but i didn't pull the trans at the same time which i should have - that would have made it a little easier. after pulling the motor only the engine wiring harness was a pain to remove, but still that was like less than an hours work. if you're going to trash it, it could be done in like 10 mins.

given no issues on your van, the turnkey could easily be installed in under a week or less. i just took my time because i wanted it to be super sano (read, a lot of zip tying), and i tried to fix as many things that were worn. looking at the motor, i don't think converting a salvaged motor would be that hard with the core kit. if you're in a hurry i'm sure you could get it done pretty fast.
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skaaudivw
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwlovr how long did your Zetec install take. my guess the hardest part is taking out the WBX and related items.
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vwlovr
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichBenn wrote:

It's not the horsepower that's important for these heavy vans, it's the torque and it's curve. The 2.2L subaru delivers 137 to 140 ft-lbs at the flywheel, vs. 130 ft-lbs for the zetec. Both are pretty flat flat from 2000 to 4000 RPM, which is what you want for the vanagon. You are right about the mileage -- 2.2L's with low mileage are becoming more scarce, but they are noted for getting up to 300K miles before a rebuild - that's diesel territory!


i totally agree, torque is king. the zetec and 2.2 subi have very similar torque curves and the charts i've seen show the subi's curve dropping off a little earlier then the zetec. all charts i've seen show the zetec on top, even if only by a few ft/bs. so like i said, i think they are similar motors. "rated"
numbers don't mean shite to me. i think that's the big benefit of the zetec conversion. the bostig guys spent the time to totally tune the ECU for their intake and exhaust, which no doubt is going to produce better numbers than a stock zetec setup. i don't just want something that works, i want something that's dialed.

just because a subi can go 300k doesn't mean i want one with 160k miles on it. i have a ea82 powered subi, it has 200k miles on it and still runs, but it consumes oil like crazy. i mean look at freakness's project, he paid like $400 for a subi car to pull the motor out of that had like 180k, that he has done a considerable amount of work on because it's an old motor, with 180k miles on it. where skaaudivw found a zetec with under 7k for $500. i'd rather have the first and last 150k of zetec than the last 120k of a 180k subi. i know it's mostly in my mind, but i like that new car smell in my engine bay.

i liked the zetec option because i knew if it didn't perform as well as i wanted it to, i could drop the cash and drop in a supercharger, reflash my programmable ECU and be on my way. given the price of fuel in ca/hawaii economy was more of a factor or me. in the end, i'm very pleased with the motor's performance. it pulls harder than i expected, on hills my tired ea82 loyale wagon needs 1st for the vanagon happily pulls in 2nd. to quote freakness, if i did the SC it would be more out of dudeness then need Smile

anywho, to each his own for sure. being a vanagon owner i have a tendency to do things out of the norm. thinking outside the boxer if you will Smile
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RichBenn
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwlovr wrote:
i could see the subi 2.2 doing 130 at the crank, but not at the wheels. bostig dyno'd there 2.0 zetec against the 2.2 subi, they got like 5hp more, nothing shocking. they were both in the 110 ballpark. if i did subi, i'd definitely do the 2.5 or better. but 2.2 vs Zetec and i'd do (rather did) the later. seems to me it would be much easier to find a low mileage zetec over a subi 2.2.


It's not the horsepower that's important for these heavy vans, it's the torque and it's curve. The 2.2L subaru delivers 137 to 140 ft-lbs at the flywheel, vs. 130 ft-lbs for the zetec. Both are pretty flat flat from 2000 to 4000 RPM, which is what you want for the vanagon. You are right about the mileage -- 2.2L's with low mileage are becoming more scarce, but they are noted for getting up to 300K miles before a rebuild - that's diesel territory!
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woundedknee
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, although we change our minds with each post, it looks like we are going to go with the Subie 2.5 conversion. We are not doing the install ourselves, so we hope that this will help avoid any glitches as our mechanic is a master vw mechanic-for what that's worth. He is looking forward to the work since he hasn't done one yet.
So now we are faced with deciding whether or not to upgrade our trannie. If money were no issue I'd love to ditch the automatic and convert to a 5 speed...
Here is what Hans at vanaru has to say about that:
If your transmission works perfectly then you could chance it. Most
customers have installed a rebuilt at the time of conversion, probably 80%.
It's a good idea if it's the original transmission, since it will probably
fail at some point anyway especially with the new situation of more power
transmitted through it. The only consideration with doing it now vs. later
is that the transmission housing needs a small machining operation, so if
you swapped it out later your van would have to be out of commission until
the transmission was rebuilt and reinstalled.

I'm leaning toward the wait and see what happens & deal with it then approach
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skaaudivw
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will be going the Zetec route also. I can find a good low mileage motor for about $400.00. under 25k and the kit is $3800.00. Tons of good motors out there and easy to work on and parts are cheap. Solid motor too. I found one locally with 7k on it for $500.00 that I'm going to grab hopefully this weekend.
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gears
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While only the 2.2 has the CARB exemption, the other Subie engine models can also be passed by individual referees in CA. But everything has to be spot-on, with no engine codes.
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vwlovr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

freakness wrote:
If you want to go over the top for no justifiable reason other than you are a dude and need to prove your "dudeness" then go 3.3 SVX - That will be my next conversion..........in a track van..............God help me.......

Oops, I almost forgot. If you live in California and want to be legal and all, then the 2.2 is your only Subaru option. d'oh!


over the top proven dudeness is 520hp twin turbo porsche powered vanagon made to look like a split window =)


Link


as for CA, got any friends in NV, or OR? the bostig guys are working on CA approval, but who knows how long that will take. i'm moving out of the republic of CA so i didn't worry about it.
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targis58
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: tiico in CA Reply with quote

If you have tiico conversion done on your van and live in Ca., how do you deal with DMV matters?
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