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New wheels - Mercedes 450 SEL - Bling! -UPDATE- Lugs w/ pics
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captainpartytime
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: New wheels - Mercedes 450 SEL - Bling! -UPDATE- Lugs w/ pics Reply with quote

Loogy mentioned in a previous post http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248258 that I should double check to make sure that my wheels had, in fact, ball seats. Well my diesel (the van that is getting the new wheels) has ball seat lugs so thats what I used to mount my new wheels. He also mentioned that the newer vanagon alloys had taper/cone seats...Well, I took a lug nut and bolt from my 89 7-passenger with taper/cone seats and tried them with my new wheels. After marking both mating surfaces with a blue sharpie, I mounted my wheels with both and carefully counted the amount of turns it took for each to tighten securely.
Diesel ball seat on the left and Alloy taper/cone seat on the right:
6 turns with the ball seat
13 turns with the taper/cone seat

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Diesel ball seat lug bolt on the left and Alloy taper/cone seat on the right:
3 turns with the ball seat
14 turns with the taper/cone seat

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I understand having more turns with the lug bolts just because they are longer but having more turns with the lug nuts leads me to believe that my mercedes wheels have a taper/cone seat. Any experts agree???
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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vntgbus
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: lugnuts Reply with quote

I run the exact set up and when researching lug nuts. I was told again and again that Mercedes stock wheels use only ball seat! It is not how many turns that determines the lugs you use, it is how the rims are drilled for the seats. And if the correct bolt or nuts are not used you have the risk of them working loose. I felt that enough advice to purchase the correct ball seat lug nuts and bolts recommended for Mercedes wheels. This would be the time not to re-invent the wheel. There is nothing worse than seeing your prized wheel passing you on the freeway......
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: lugnuts Reply with quote

vntgbus wrote:
I There is nothing worse than seeing your prized wheel passing you on the freeway......

Well, actually, there is. It is seeing your prized alloy wheel pass you on the other side of the guard rail....and into the precipice.
Looking at those pix, it seems that the layout fluid rubbed off would indicate that the Mercedes wheels have ball seats. But 3 turns is not anywhere near enough.
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
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80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: lugnuts Reply with quote

69doublecab wrote:

Looking at those pix, it seems that the layout fluid rubbed off would indicate that the Mercedes wheels have ball seats. But 3 turns is not anywhere near enough.
Al


Hmmm, I'm seeing just the opposite. The tapered seats have more blue rubbed off. If in fact the Mercedes wheels had a ball seat, the blue on the tapered lugs would be rubbed off in one of two ways; two different areas, high and low (the middle area would be untouched because it would not be touching the concave shape of the ball seat) or one rub spot really high or really low on the lug.

One way to check for sure is to spray the lug hole with cooking spray and then steal some of your kids palydo. Cram the playdo down the hole until you are sure it has contacted the seat fully. Pull out the clay and inspect.

You deffinately want to get this part right!
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duh! I said that backwards! you are correct. It appears that the cone shaped ones fit.
Al
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Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home
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captainpartytime
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playdo test tomorrow morning...great idea!!!
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Raggamuffin
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell me more about the wheels please. Did you have to modify them, or do they bolt right up? Nice bling! Very Happy
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captainpartytime
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VW12Step wrote:
Tell me more about the wheels please. Did you have to modify them, or do they bolt right up? Nice bling!

They bolted right up with no mods except for getting longer studs (you can see how short the studs were from my stock steel wheels) and switching from ball seat lug bolts/nuts to taper/cone seats. I think it will be around $40 bucks for new ones....so I'm in for about $130 bucks for new wheels with the correct lugs. Also the ET is 25 which puts the wheel slightly further out from stock (slight positive scrub radius). Read this if you want to know where I got these rims and where they came from http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248258
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captainpartytime
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the playdo test worked perfectly...their taper seats. I'm beginning to think that these were not the factory wheels I removed from the mercedes. I've included pictures of all the markings on the inside of the wheel.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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-Kerry

1982 turbo diesel Westfalia
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