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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:01 am Post subject: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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So, I've decided that I must find new screws for my doors. While some of them may not be completely scary, they all need to be replaced.
I can do this via ISP West, to the tune of $180, but I'd prefer to pay something a bit more reasonable.
Looking through the Group 8 Body document, these are not a N group hardware item. They have a part number like others. 311831455 to be exact
Does anybody know where I can get these at a price I have any hope of affording any time soon? _________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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mdege wrote: |
What make you think they are $180 ISP?
8 pieces cost $7 and you need 16 pieces? That makes it $14 plus shipping where I learned math |
I just looked at ISP.
The OP appears to have a 1964 notchback from his avatar. Thats an early car right?
Its not clear from the ISP site. When you click on early door parts you see this
Now....that says "screw"...and not "screw kit" like you see in the late type 3 door parts list.
Its not clear if that is a single screw for $14 or not. Ray |
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andybla Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2014 Posts: 630 Location: BE
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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Aren’t early cars 4 per door so 8 in total?
Maybe at a scrapyard? |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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andybla wrote: |
Aren’t early cars 4 per door so 8 in total?
Maybe at a scrapyard? |
The early cars use 3 screws per hinge or 6 per door. They're a thick button head style. On my son's car, we used some 10mm headed M-8 screws, since once you put the plastic cap in place you don't see the screw heads. Worked out well for him, and you don't have to worry about stripping the allen head of the screw.
Late cars use a counter sunk phillips head screw, 4 in total per door. The T-34 uses the same screws, but more screws per door. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ibjack Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002 Posts: 2105 Location: Imperial Beach CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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I fell into that ISP trap and paid $40 for two screws ( thought it was $14.95 for a screw set and needed two sets). They are standard new manufacture pieces and not NOS. Here's what I ended up buying,
https://www.amazon.com/M8-1-25-Button-Socket-Screw...Q&th=1
Just need to but washers and you're good to go. _________________ '68 Lotus White T34 automatic sunroof
'64 Manila Yellow T34
'65 Sea Blue Square Panel
the1500club.com
Shop Lacky at the T3/34 Factory, https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094313902074 |
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:59 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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OK, I was going by the PN he listed and that led me to the screw I mentioned.
The early screws are more difficult, but there is a very similar screw which VW uses on modern cars. I will need to find out what the PN is. I have the same issue, I am also missing some of the screws.
The main feature of the screw is, that it has a larger head, larger than normal Allen head screws.
This is not the exact screw I was looking for, but I think it would be a good alternative:
N91194601
Found one more interesting one it is shorter and probably fits without cutting it down:
N90800503 _________________ - Michael
1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car |
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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:33 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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mdege wrote: |
What make you think they are $180 ISP?
8 pieces cost $7 and you need 16 pieces? That makes it $14 plus shipping where I learned math |
Yes, math where I learned it results in 15 X 12 = 180
Well, I was hoping for an answer that involved using a nearly identical VW part, but in the back of my mind, I kind of knew it was unlikely.
I don't think any of my hardware stores have that fantastic of a selection, but I do have a bolt house which may be able to cover me. Otherwise, I'll search through the online annals to find something good.
I don't really care for the way the stock screws have the rounded head circumference anyway. As clean as it looks, I wonder about whether it could have something to do with why mine are so prone to rounding out. _________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:30 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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Ok, I checked McMaster-Carr and Fastenal. MMC didn't have as good of a system for verifying all the details while searching, but what I found there was still like $7 per screw.
However, I found these little beauties at Fastenal. I can also order them, and simply drive down the road and pick them up, no shipping cost.
I still need to pull one and measure it to ensure I haven't guessed the wrong length, but I'm liking what I see there.
_________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:13 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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vdubjiunkie wrote: |
Ok, I checked McMaster-Carr and Fastenal. MMC didn't have as good of a system for verifying all the details while searching, but what I found there was still like $7 per screw.
However, I found these little beauties at Fastenal. I can also order them, and simply drive down the road and pick them up, no shipping cost.
I still need to pull one and measure it to ensure I haven't guessed the wrong length, but I'm liking what I see there.
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Mcmaster is just about the best search catalog on the planet.
Post the dimensions of what you are looking for. Wjat is the outer diameter of the head of the bolt.
What is the thickness/max heigjt of the head
Total thread length under the head
You are basically looking for a class 8.8 or better, wide button head machine screw right?
Or....are you looking for a "cap screw". Post a picture.
I dont drive an early type 3 so ai have no idea what this part looks like.....but I have to source industrial and automotive hardware virtually daily. More xetail and ai bet I can find something close.
Ray |
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:07 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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Unfortunately those screws are not ideal. Here is why:
The holes in the plate which holds the hinge to the a-pilar have a diameter of 11.0mm
The screw head of the screw referenced in the previous post has a diameter of 12.7mm the original screw has a lager head with a diameter of 16mm
Here are some screws:
1. left one is not ideal, but adding a washer is a possible solution: 12.7mm x 5mm head
2. second to the left is basically the screw in the previous post, just shorter. The head will stick out of the a-pilar: 12.7mm x 8.0mm head
3. second to the right original screw: 16mm x 6mm head
4. right one is a modern VW screw: 15.8mm x 5mm head
The right screw plus the washer is what you are sold in Europe by some of the places selling parts for classic VWs, if you search for the original PN. This screw is far from ideal because it is stainless steel, not a good idea, because it will lead to contact corrosion. You can get the same style screw in normal steel, that would be a usable solution.
The PNs I listed earlier N91194601 and N90800503 are also current VW part numbers. You should be able to get them at any VW dealership or online i.e. ecs tuning _________________ - Michael
1965 21F: Restoration of a former '65 firetruck
1963 Typ3 Notchback project
1988 Multivan Magnum 112i
1984 Standard: My son wanted a bug for his first car |
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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:47 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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Michael,
Thanks for this effort. I was wondering about the height of the screw I was looking for, but hadn't yet taken the time to verify. However, I hadn't yet realized the issue with the diameter of the head.
I'll post again when I've decided what I will use. Thanks to each of you for helping me with yet another issue! _________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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I pulled one of my screws and took some measurements. McMaster-Carr has this screw which is 10mm thread length. Mine measures 10.3, but I think it’s typical for them to be a bit over like that.
The drive size is 6mm and threads M8, so that matches up. But, the head is 14mm, while mine is 16mm. I don’t know how much the 1mm loss in radius will matter. I don’t think VW made such decisions for no good reason. I’m not sure I’ll find a better fit.
I could try to find a 16mm OD washer, but then the effective length of the threads will be shorter and the head will stick up higher.
Screws, Black-Oxide Alloy Steel, M8 x 1.25 mm Thread, 10 mm Long
https://www.mcmaster.com/91239A414 _________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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The OG screw has a 6mm head height - this usually prevents the use of a standard hex head cap screw - the only way I've found to get the right OD is to use a flange cap screw but they're closer to 8mm thick. I have not yet confirmed fit but I suspect they're too tall.
Another idea is a flange button head although I suspect they lack the tensile strength to be a good choice. The head height is almost always under 6mm (perhaps too thin for a door hinge). |
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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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Screws, Black-Oxide, M8 x 1.25 mm Thread, 10mm Long
https://www.mcmaster.com/92137A634
So, I was wrong about the drive size. These are both 5mm. This screw is 4.4mm tall and 17.8mm diameter head. I just went and measured my door hole. The hole itself is much larger. While the threads are off center, it still certainly seems to have enough space. I think these just may be the ticket. $14.68 for a pack of $25!! _________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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mdege Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2018 Posts: 936 Location: Niederkruechten, Germany
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:17 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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mdege wrote: |
vdubjiunkie wrote: |
Screws, Black-Oxide, M8 x 1.25 mm Thread, 10mm Long
https://www.mcmaster.com/92137A634
So, I was wrong about the drive size. These are both 5mm. This screw is 4.4mm tall and 17.8mm diameter head. I just went and measured my door hole. The hole itself is much larger. While the threads are off center, it still certainly seems to have enough space. I think these just may be the ticket. $14.68 for a pack of $25!! |
They look like they could really work. Let us know when you tried them. |
Same one I was considering.
I'll be interested in how they hold up over, say, a year. |
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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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Well, I just placed the order. I’ll be sure to let you all know! _________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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vdubjiunkie Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2017 Posts: 99 Location: Northwest Arkansas
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Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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Hey guys, I've got a quick follow up. The short answer is that these screws fit great, and the extra diameter is a non-issue.
If you have any interest, there's more to the story, and I've got a video for it. Summary of that video is that I rounded out another female hex on one of the screws, so I was only able to replace 5 of the six left hand door screws so far.
Good news is that I'll be fixing some more of this soon!
https://youtu.be/4LvAV6cSVQU _________________ 1964 Type 3 Notchback
1969 Karmann Ghia shell in need of full body off restoration
2004 WRX
"It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It" - Upton Sinclair |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:26 am Post subject: Re: remotely reasonably priced new door hinge screws? |
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vdubjiunkie wrote: |
Hey guys, I've got a quick follow up. The short answer is that these screws fit great, and the extra diameter is a non-issue.
If you have any interest, there's more to the story, and I've got a video for it. Summary of that video is that I rounded out another female hex on one of the screws, so I was only able to replace 5 of the six left hand door screws so far.
Good news is that I'll be fixing some more of this soon!
https://youtu.be/4LvAV6cSVQU |
Great to hear! Be sure you use anti,-size on them!
Ray |
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