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Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke?
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

So in pulling the tranny, I have to get the clutch slave cylinder out of the bracket up high on the tranny side. Two nuts. The easy one is 10 seconds and the nut comes off like the bolt is actually a stud - which is a great design. The other nut, I loosen with great difficulty for access and, and, and......it spins as VW decided the difficult to access bolt would be a bolt so it will spin - rather than be a stud. Its like someone reversed the drawings just like they did on the rear locker actuator bracket where the easy bolts are welded on and the impossible to access bolts are.....not.

Any tricks to do this? The bolt I need to somehow get a fastener on is inside the concave welded steel triangular space of the bracket, blocked by the rubber boot. No way even my best wobble is getting in there.

Thanks in advance - this looks truly impossible to get any type of tool in there.

DougM
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T3 Pilot
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picked up a great tip somewhere here on the forum about this. I think it was posted by Alaric.

Remove the entire bracket with the slave cylinder still attached. There is a circlip and a nut that are accessible from underneath.

While you have the bracket off you can consider welding the nuts that are spinning onto the bracket so that it will be easier next time to remove the slave cylinder from up top and leave the bracket in place.

Good luck.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Just wow. Those who have delved into this thing know what I speak of when I express disbelief at how VW put that rearward bolt into a deep steel recess, then blocked the only access with the slave cylinder's boot.

I was able to get it in the following way. It has been hit for a couple days with PB Blaster.

Take a 13mm open end wrench and push it up past the boot (pressing the boot out of the way) and place it such that it simply restricts the bolt from turning. It's not ON the bolt, in fact it's actually just the tips of the wrench that are sitting on the bolt head as if you were trying to spear it and both tips missed. But it will trap it if you can hold the wrench firmly enough. Which brings me to trick #2. Hold the wrench in position and use a long nosed vice grip to smash it up against the cast iron clutch lever. You have to push the wrench as hard as you can against the bolt head and hold it at an angle such that both tips are touching down next to the bolt's head so both are trapping the bolt head. Once the vice grips are in place the sucky part's over.

Now take a 13mm Gear Wrench, get it on the bolt on top of the bracket and once you break it loose it is what these wrenches are best at - one click at a time and you're loosening the nut. Seems to take forever, but compared to some of the things I read people do (cut off the clutch lever and replace it when the tranny's out, destroy the bracket, etc), this is now a "lay on your back and deal with the tediousness" exercise.

Wow. That really, truly sucked.

DougM
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been covered in every Syncro forum since 86 with pictures.
Easily a 10 minute job if you know what to do.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

Old thread.
Wasn't insyncro more "helpful" way back in 2012?
.....not always.... Wink

The pro tip that he may be dangling about....
waiting for someone to "kiss his ring".....
is to "access that bolt from the engine compartment" rather than from under the van.
I've never done it from the engine bay, but I've heard of it.

============

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

A common custom has been to weld a nut on.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Or weld a bolt on, like a stud.

But not everyone has a welder, and you (generally) have to unbolt the whole bracket (or trans) to weld it anyway.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After you get the danged bolt out (from the engine bay), drill a hole here and change the bolts to Allen screws, then you can hold it with a ball-end Allen wrench next time.
To drill a hole at an angle like that try to get a small pilot hole drilled then increase to 5/16.
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Phishman068
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

With certain engine conversion, it's actually quite accessible.
With my bostig I'd say it's easier to access then with my stock WBXer 2wd.

Whenever the trans is out- weld a nut, you'll be happy.
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markswagen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

Every time l get hold of those brackets, l always weld a bolt into each piece.
Welding in a nut seems pointless, { my apologies to those who feel that's the way}
If you are going to weld something, weld a bolt, so you only have to push down on the slave cylinder to spin on a nut.
If you weld in a nut, you still have to push the slave down, AND align things while you try not to cross thread the bolt.
Also IF you can get the pushrod off the end of the release bearing forks, grease it, when you refit, as it is the easiest way to remove it.
I always cover both bases.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

What if by some strange chanceÖ.
    A welder isnít available?
    And the trans is still mounted in the van?
    Working from below, on gravel?


A drill is arguably easier than welding.
Even for a weldor.🤣
But you have to buy a couple Allen bolts and a ball-end hex tool.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Heres a pic from Facebook.
I don't know anything about this method other than looking at this pic.
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Microbusdeluxe Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

Chop a 13mm closed end wrench down to about 3" long. Or put in a Bostig conversion and enjoy all the elbow room in the engine compartment.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

Microbusdeluxe wrote:
Chop a 13mm closed end wrench down to about 3" long. Or put in a Bostig conversion and enjoy all the elbow room in the engine compartment.


Or a diesel engine , factory set up.

One of the tricks I use for reinstalling the bolt(as pulling out the bracket in situ can be very hard, the clutch lever often rusted on the splines) is stuff some rages under the bolts, pointing up. Then I use a small impact gun to drive the nut on. Use a piece of wire to guide the washer and nut to fall on the bolt, turn the nut a thread or 2 while it's sitting there, guided.
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markswagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

this one l had to deal with, and with the possibility that l'd be the next one in there, l used riv-nuts.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

l loctite bolts in from the bottom, so they stay there.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

l went a little deep with the counter bore.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sodo wrote:
What if by some strange chanceÖ.
    A welder isnít available?
    And the trans is still mounted in the van?
    Working from below, on gravel?


A drill is arguably easier than welding.
Even for a weldor.🤣
But you have to buy a couple Allen bolts and a ball-end hex tool.

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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

markswagen wrote:
this one l had to deal with, and with the possibility that l'd be the next one in there, l used riv-nuts.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

l loctite bolts in from the bottom, so they stay there.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

l went a little deep with the counter bore.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sodo wrote:
What if by some strange chanceÖ.
    A welder isnít available?
    And the trans is still mounted in the van?
    Working from below, on gravel?


A drill is arguably easier than welding.
Even for a weldor.🤣
But you have to buy a couple Allen bolts and a ball-end hex tool.


I did that on a customer's van last year too. I didn't put Loctite studs/bolts bc it's a 2WD. I never published it bc I'm not a fan of countersinking the slave cylinder unless it's for your own use, or like me, you're the only guy working on this van.
The next idiot replacing won't countersink it for sure.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

If you don't countersink, the slave moves up the thickness of the crimp-flange. (0.8mm?)
Agreed on your own van, why not, if you feel like doing it.
Countersink doesn't seem necessary.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

Yes it required a welder, but I cut the heads off of 2, 5 or 6mm bolts, donít recall, and welded those to the hex head of the slave cylinder bolts. This makes them like T bolts and they jam against the side of the bracket as you tighten the nuts. They also hold the bolts if you need to remove the slave later. Welded nuts and bolts to the bracket have some disadvantages.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Access to syncro clutch slave cylinder a cruel joke? Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Yes it required a welder, but I cut the heads off of 2, 5 or 6mm bolts, donít recall, and welded those to the hex head of the slave cylinder bolts. This makes them like T bolts and they jam against the side of the bracket as you tighten the nuts. They also hold the bolts if you need to remove the slave later. Welded nuts and bolts to the bracket have some disadvantages.


We think alike.
I did similar T bolts for the propshaft bar bolts Cool
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
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