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John M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2005
Posts: 3833
Location: Boulder, CO
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 Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:45 am Post subject: No more crappy linkages! |
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Finally went ahead and purchased the CSP Bellcrank linkage for my 44IDF's.
The CB Performance hex bar linkage has pissed me off for the last time. It worked great for the first year or so but is now starting to wear very quickly. So much so that the carbs cannot be synchronized to open at the same time. The right carb leads the left by about 500rpms. There isn't enough adjustment to remedy it. The left carb is "sticky" about 40% of the time on decelleration....when the engine is warmed. Overall it's very sloppy. Low RPM driving is done on the right side of the engine. 
Can't wait to get the CSP installed and be done with these issues!
_________________
Current: 1972 Beetle - 96V EV
Previous:
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1300SP
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1600SP
1974 Beetle - African Red - 1914CC
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pikeman48
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2007
Posts: 216
Location: bangor,michigan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I bought CSP linkage for my Kads.The quality and design was worth the cash!!! 
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if it has wheels or tits,it will make your life difficult!!
1962 type 1-gone,but not forgotten
1971 type 1 vert-sold
sand rail-stripped and scrapped
1968 Empi Sportster |
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57 Rag
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1145
Location: Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Greeeaaat.  I just bought the CB linkage. Just my luck.
_________________
57 Ragtop
84x94 86C
IDAs |
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Paul Wilson
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2003
Posts: 608
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have used the CB hex kit for years. I replace the ball studs every couple of years with no other problems. I must have an early unit. (with the steel hex shaft)
Paul |
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John M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2005
Posts: 3833
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| 57 Rag wrote: |
| Greeeaaat. I just bought the CB linkage. Just my luck. |
When it works, it works great. I could "make" mine work again, but it's not worth the effort. It's hit and miss with how fast they wear....from what I've heard.
_________________
Current: 1972 Beetle - 96V EV
Previous:
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1300SP
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1600SP
1974 Beetle - African Red - 1914CC
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57 Rag
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1145
Location: Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Wilson wrote: |
I have used the CB hex kit for years. I replace the ball studs every couple of years with no other problems. I must have an early unit. (with the steel hex shaft)
Paul |
That's it? Just the ball studs? I can deal with that I guess.
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57 Ragtop
84x94 86C
IDAs |
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Michael Fischer
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 1585
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| You have to grease the ball studs everyonce in awhile. Amsoil grease is the best. Expect to replace those and the hexbar every so often. |
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SRP1
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 4340
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been using the same CB linkage with same ball ends since 1987 on one of my engines, and many others for that matter. Yes the ends are worn now but the system has never been a problem. It's all in the set up. |
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volksnut
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2002
Posts: 380
Location: winter park, florida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I just bought the CB linkage kit, the crossbar I got is steel...I like it..I had the CSP also, had to run the extra spring on the bell crank, still wasn't enough had to run another off one of the carbs..also the accel cable was too long also |
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Bashr52
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5666
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| The problem I'm having with my CB linkage, is that extension rod on the left carb. Because the linkage is attached directly to the right carb, the carb begins to open as soon and you push the hex bar. The left carb however, flexes that extension since it stands off of the throttle arm. I can't get it to work completely right, i just ordered the push/pull style today. It's fine when you are cruising around, but mines so bad that when you floor it, the right carb snaps open, and the left carb lags seriously behind. When I try and start out from a stop I have to rev it up to get the carbs to run semi-even and be able to start off. not cool for around town, light to light. It is a good quality linakge though, I have the full set with the filter bases and those things are THICK!!! |
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John M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2005
Posts: 3833
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Bashr52 wrote: |
| The problem I'm having with my CB linkage, is that extension rod on the left carb. Because the linkage is attached directly to the right carb, the carb begins to open as soon and you push the hex bar. The left carb however, flexes that extension since it stands off of the throttle arm. |
That's EXACTLY what mine is doing.
| Quote: |
| It's fine when you are cruising around, but mines so bad that when you floor it, the right carb snaps open, and the left carb lags seriously behind. When I try and start out from a stop I have to rev it up to get the carbs to run semi-even and be able to start off. |
Hey me too. Like I said, till 1500rpms is all the right carb action.
_________________
Current: 1972 Beetle - 96V EV
Previous:
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1300SP
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1600SP
1974 Beetle - African Red - 1914CC
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66 12volt
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| so much of it is in the geometry. It has to be exact. Linkage on both sides need to be the same. The levers on the throttle have to be the same length. One or two degrees off on the linkage rods has a huge effect |
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SRP1
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007
Posts: 4340
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Bashr52 wrote: |
| The problem I'm having with my CB linkage, is that extension rod on the left carb. Because the linkage is attached directly to the right carb, the carb begins to open as soon and you push the hex bar. The left carb however, flexes that extension since it stands off of the throttle arm. I can't get it to work completely right, i just ordered the push/pull style today. It's fine when you are cruising around, but mines so bad that when you floor it, the right carb snaps open, and the left carb lags seriously behind. When I try and start out from a stop I have to rev it up to get the carbs to run semi-even and be able to start off. not cool for around town, light to light. It is a good quality linakge though, I have the full set with the filter bases and those things are THICK!!! |
To make the linkage work, try the following; First you need to synch the idle on both carbs, do this with the linkage disconnected. Second adjust the ball screws so that there is zero play in the hex bar from side to side with the engine cold, not tight just zero. Third attach the linkage to the carbs, and slide the arms on the hex bar side to side so that the link adjusting bars that connect to the carbs sit vertical, should one carb be a little off from full open to closed slide the arm on the hex bar slightly left to right to find the "sweet spot". Forth screw in or out both of the link bars so that the arms on the hex linkage bar are just up from being flat about 10* up leaving a small amount of thread for adjustment. Fifth pushing on the throttle cable arm in the same way as the cable pulls on it, adjust (turn) only one link bar so that both carbs open at exactly the same time, you need to duplicate how the throttle cable will actuate this as closely as possible, very important.
Now any idle adjustments you make in the future to one carb you do the same to the other and your linkage will stay in synch for a long time. Also you need to use a heavy bearing grease on the ball screws, and anti-seize on the threads of the link bars. |
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mharney
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2002
Posts: 8353
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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After two months..
http://waitresses.servebeer.com:81/vwpage/linkage.wmv
Replaced the hexbar with a harder piece and that helped. Then I got tired of constantly fussing with it after the downrod joints and other parts started to slop.. went to CSP and never looked back. |
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John M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2005
Posts: 3833
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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You don't want to even see mine.
| Quote: |
| so much of it is in the geometry. It has to be exact. Linkage on both sides need to be the same. The levers on the throttle have to be the same length. One or two degrees off on the linkage rods has a huge effect |
I had mine perfectly synched and geometry was good. I haven't touched them since (8-10months) and it's all gone to hell. There isn't enough adjustment anymore on the downrods to compensate for the slop.
_________________
Current: 1972 Beetle - 96V EV
Previous:
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1300SP
1966 Beetle - Sea Blue - 1600SP
1974 Beetle - African Red - 1914CC
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lostinbaja
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2004
Posts: 4036
Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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I am running CSP linkage on 3 VW's and I won't use anything else. It's extremely smooth, easy to setup and it doesn't go out of adjustment. 5 seasons in a sandrail and I have never had to touch the linkage.
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Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
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mharney
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2002
Posts: 8353
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| John M. wrote: |
| You don't want to even see mine. |
Well, remember mine was after 2 months of driving the shit out of the car. I can synch linkage, it's no mystery to me, I know all about geometry, greasing the joints, etc. The crossbar they use on these kits (at least the "newer" ones compared to that which some have mentioned) isn't very good material and grooves out pretty quick. I think the folks that have run it for years oughta give us a little video like the one I did, to see what theirs does. If theirs are tight, I'd call it a materials issue. I do know that when I changed to harder hex bar steel, it stopped. I used stainless, which has a pretty good resistance to wear and machining for that matter. After that it didn't wear anything like the original bar. I also know that the hole drilled was not sloppy to start with - I had it drilled for basically zero clearance. Point loading is a bitch. |
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RockNbus
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2006
Posts: 815
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| mharney wrote: |
| Then I got tired of constantly fussing with it after the downrod joints and other parts started to slop.. went to CSP and never looked back. |
I agree with Mark, the CSP solved the linkage problems that I had. However, I did change the CSP over to Heim joints before I install it, just to be on the pro-active side. |
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MURZI
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 5063
Location: Madisonville, La
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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What are you guys using for the return spring action? I fabbed up a lever that bolted to rear of one carb's throttle shaft(out of eyesight) with a spring. Any other ideas? Does the little "clock type spring" they sell work?
Anyone have a direct link to buy the csp linkage. The last CSP linkage I bought from Art Tharen, the IDA god, just because he happened to have it.
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2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
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1961bluebug
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2002
Posts: 1137
Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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i modified my centerpull linkage to work with two stock beetle carb springs. They are pretty strong and can be obtained easily...
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|82x94|
1961 Deluxe beetle, 1971 type 181, 1968 T2a Baywindow, 1973 Type 147 "Swiss Fridolin"(sold), 1966 Deluxe sedan (sold), 1983 "Silver Bug" edition (sold), 1961 beetle (sold) |
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