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darbyjack Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2013 Posts: 225 Location: Surrey, UK
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Had a quick look without loosening and turning it around, I managed to read
JFUD4
0 231 268
It's a single vacuum advance
There's no flat spot and engine sounds normal at all RPM speeds. Very smooth ride. _________________ 1970 VW Beetle standard. 1600 DP engine
Right hand drive from UK of course! |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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darbyjack wrote: |
Had a quick look without loosening and turning it around, I managed to read
JFUD4
0 231 268
It's a single vacuum advance |
Hmmm...
From this example you can see the Bosch number is four sets of numbers:
"0 231" is the standard start of a Bosch distributor part#.
You can find most/all the VW Bosch distributors for aircooled cars here:
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm
Unfortunately, none of them start "0 231 268..."
Use a mirror and see if you can find the whole number and look it up on the Old Volks Home site above. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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darbyjack Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2013 Posts: 225 Location: Surrey, UK
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I had a proper look, it's:
JFUD4
0 231 168 015
043 905 205 L
with an EMPI carb 34PCT thingy
edit: wow that's a long list, couldn't find that exact number but similar. I have electric ignition, no points _________________ 1970 VW Beetle standard. 1600 DP engine
Right hand drive from UK of course! |
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darbyjack Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2013 Posts: 225 Location: Surrey, UK
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Now I'm super confused how to correctly time it _________________ 1970 VW Beetle standard. 1600 DP engine
Right hand drive from UK of course! |
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Mr.Duncan Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2012 Posts: 3542 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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darbyjack wrote: |
Now I'm super confused how to correctly time it |
if you have a single vac advance (svda)
Disconnect the vac hose and plug it at the carb.
Next turn the engine on, with your timing light on the #1 spark plug wire rev to 3500 rpm.
Then adjust timing to 30 degrees BTDC (to the right of the TDC mark) at that RPM
tighten the clamp.
Re-check your timing
Next shut the engine off, and re-connect the vac hose. Adjust idle.
You are good to go.
use this to mark 30 degrees on your pulley (remember its to the right of TDC)
_________________ (Owner) www.vintagecarleds.com
Red 1971 Squareback Thread
Red 1966 Beetle Thread
---------------------------------------------------
1971 Green Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Ghia (sold)
1971 Blue Super Beetle (sold)
1966 Java Green Std Beetle (sold)
1971 Red Squareback (sold)
1966 Red Beetle |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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darbyjack wrote: |
Ok I had a proper look, it's:
JFUD4
0 231 168 015
043 905 205 L
with an EMPI carb 34PCT thingy
edit: wow that's a long list, couldn't find that exact number but similar. I have electric ignition, no points |
Try this list from the Type2 (Bus) site:
http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/boignp.htm
It appears your distributor was from a '76-'79 1600cc Transporter? Might not be from a US-model VW.
No wonder you are confused.
Follow the instructions above for setting max mechanical advance. This is a safe way to limit the max mechanical to around 30BTDC +/-2deg. More than this can cause detonation at high rpms. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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darbyjack Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2013 Posts: 225 Location: Surrey, UK
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Okay I got a pro to time it and set up the carb and now it semms all good Can't remember what he said. Something like 7.5BTDC and 30-32 on max advance and reset the carb.
I need to rebuild the bloody carb though >.> _________________ 1970 VW Beetle standard. 1600 DP engine
Right hand drive from UK of course! |
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Lebleboojian Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2010 Posts: 56 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject: timing alignment |
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Ok this may seem like a silly question, but i'm trying to align the timing. The first thing I did was the gear marks on the cam and crankshaft aligned. The engine code starts with FO which means it's a 1966 block 1300cc. timing is 7.5 btdc. So with the pulley installed, it has the large bump and the two V notches to the right. The first V notch is the 7.5 btdc mark. Does this V mark align with the dot on the right side of the block Or dose the bump on the pulley align with the center of the case? |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:10 am Post subject: Re: timing alignment |
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Lebleboojian wrote: |
... So with the pulley installed, it has the large bump and the two V notches to the right. The first V notch is the 7.5 btdc mark. Does this V mark align with the dot on the right side of the block Or dose the bump on the pulley align with the center of the case? |
The case split is your timing "pointer".
In the above example, the left notch is 7.5BTDC and the right is 10BTDC. Assuming the #1 cylinder spark fires at the moment the right notch lines up (as above), the ignition timing would be 10BTDC. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Bob Brugge Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2015 Posts: 721 Location: Missoula, MT
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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I have 009 Dizzy, 34 pict3 carb, 4 notches on my crank pulley and no dimple
I have a v notch, a w notch and another v notch. Sorry I can't post a pic. You would all probably make mean jokes anyway as I painted my engine to look like a happy meal AND I have the fuel filter in the engine bay.
I did the best I knew how to get it to TDC which as far as I can tell is the right hand side of the w notch. coming home today it was about 150 degrees or more on the road. When I got it home it had a slight knock. After letting it cool for a few hours, I restarted it and there is no longer a knock.
OK, so 009 dizzy times to 0TDC, right?
Any reason I would have 4 stupid notches on a stock looking crank pulley?
Any reason I have oil on the back of the pulley in the outer lip on OD?
My oil level seems to be raising slightly and smells like gas, got real dirty in a few hundred miles, and generally just scares the crap out of me as I thought I knew what I was doing, but now am not so sure.
Thoughts, jokes, etc?? |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:42 am Post subject: |
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If it were me, I would get the carb rebuilt to ensure that the gas in my oil i snot coming from the float valve. If that did not fix the problem I would be looking at the fuel pump. Change the oil before you run it or new main bearings will be yoru next project.
Invest in a degree pulley so you will know for a fact.
Time your 009 distributor as it says here....while you are looking for a better distributor for your application.
http://type2.com/library/electrip/bosch009.htm |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4539 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:13 am Post subject: |
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this thread should be re-titled "how to time a VW".
how many times can you guys explain this?
anywho....
i have a stock pulley that i am absolutely sure is original to the AE code engine in my 71 KG Autostick.
it has timing marks that are like no other listed in any manual or even this thread.
i have owned this car for over 20 years and have always timed it using the big, yellow mark in the photo--which i am now begining to think is wrong.
after reviewing this thread i am starting to think that i have 5ATDC and either 7.5 or 10BTDC, but no TDC dimple:
the two "factory" marks (left) are 13/16" apart.
the third "advance" mark (right) appears to be homemade and does not correspond to any max advance i would use relative to either mark.
i run a german o34, but it left the factory with a DVDA.
what say you, pulley experts? _________________ 88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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If you print out the little diagram, you could compare. |
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Bob Brugge Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2015 Posts: 721 Location: Missoula, MT
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
If it were me, I would get the carb rebuilt to ensure that the gas in my oil i snot coming from the float valve. If that did not fix the problem I would be looking at the fuel pump. Change the oil before you run it or new main bearings will be yoru next project.
Invest in a degree pulley so you will know for a fact.
Time your 009 distributor as it says here....while you are looking for a better distributor for your application.
http://type2.com/library/electrip/bosch009.htm |
Ok, so here is an image of all four timing marks. The Carb is rebuilt less than 500 miles ago. The fuel pump is brand spanking new with the appropriate push rod for it.
The blue mark is what I think is TDC... will use the degree wheel I printed out from this thread
I drove it 20 miles to work this morning. Ambient temperature was around 70 or 75 degrees. By the time I got to work, the dipstick was too hot to touch...
Once I verify that my timing is correct, what else can I do to keep this thing cool? I have all my tins in place, as far as I know, My seal is a little dry and crunchy, I may have to get after it with some tape or something as a temp fix.
Ideas?
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Try timing the 009 correctly first.
Retarded timing will generate high oil temps.
Perhaps the carb is just running rich. How do those plugs look? |
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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3899 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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So why do you think that mark is TDC? You just "assumed"? Most pulleys with marks in that pattern
would be at 10 deg BTDC at your assumed TDC mark.
Marks can appear ANYWHERE on the pulley. There is NO way to distinguish "factory" marks from marks made by
some PO, frequently operating under mistaken notions of engine position. You MUST determine what is the "real"
TDC on #1 piston compression stroke independently from any pulley or distributor mark. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4539 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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after some careful measurements with a spare (normal) pulley and a seamstress tape, it would appear that i am correct.
my pulley has a 5A and a 7.5B notch and no TDC dimple.
one for strobe and one for static, i guess?
i do know that VW introduced strobe timing around the time my car was made; around the beginning of more strict US emissions requirements.
so my pulley is "pre-TDC-dimple"?...or is something Autostick specific?
insights welcomed _________________ 88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26325 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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borninabus wrote: |
i do know that VW introduced strobe timing around the time my car was made; around the beginning of more strict US emissions requirements.
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Not really introduced then - it was shown in the 1961-65 Workshop manual. But that was the first time such devices were required to set timing, yes.
Just because your pulley has those two notches, doesn't mean that a previous owner didn't add one of them. That's what I would suspect.
-Andy |
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Bob Brugge Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2015 Posts: 721 Location: Missoula, MT
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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kreemoweet wrote: |
So why do you think that mark is TDC? You just "assumed"? Most pulleys with marks in that pattern
would be at 10 deg BTDC at your assumed TDC mark.
Marks can appear ANYWHERE on the pulley. There is NO way to distinguish "factory" marks from marks made by
some PO, frequently operating under mistaken notions of engine position. You MUST determine what is the "real"
TDC on #1 piston compression stroke independently from any pulley or distributor mark. |
Knowing how to spell ass-u-me, I try not to.
I did the whole straw in the cylinder trick and came up with that. Turns out I was WRONG!! It's ok, that's how we learn.
Using the degree wheel and advice in this column, I figured out the 1st notch is TDC, the w notch is 7.5 and 10. The last notch is 30!! Now if I can just get my timing light to work...
Thanks for the info, lets just hope I don't melt my engine before I get it set right. |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15987 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: |
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There are three ways to accurately find TDC. I've ranked them here from least accurate to most....
1) TDC mark on the crank pulley.
Pro: This is most commonly acceptable method for finding TDC, and is quickest if there is a clear TDC mark.
Con: As indicated above it is not always clear which notch/mark is TDC. Also, some stock pullies did NOT have a TDC mark. And, some aftermarket pullies are not always accurately marked so you cannot be sure the TDC mark is really TDC.
2) Woodruff key slot in crank pulley. This should be located at the "9-o'clock" position when the #1 cylinder is at TDC.
Pro: Using a (paper) degree wheel you can accurately mark the location of TDC by lining up 270deg (-90deg) on the wheel with the center of the key slot.
Con: You may need to remove the crank pulley to properly line up degree wheel and mark the pulley. There is also a small chance that the woodruff key is NOT perfectly cut at the 9-o'clock position of the crank or the crank pulley.
3) Piston position (TDC) tool (most accurate). This is the tool that you screw into the spark plug hole (you can make one from an old spark plug and a bolt). You extend the threaded piece so it contacts the piston just before it reaches TDC. With a pencil, mark the pulley where it lines up with the case split. Rotate the engine almost 360-deg in the opposite direction until the tool contacts the piston again. Make another pencil mark on the pulley where the case split lines up. Now make a permanent mark between these two pencil marks. This is TRUE TDC for that cylinder.
Pro: Most accurate method for finding TDC. Takes into account any alignment weaknesses in the case, crank or pulley. No dependancy on existing marks or indicators.
Con: Need of a special (DIY) tool and the spark plugs need to be removed (at least #1 plug).
_________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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